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Serbia grants citizenship to Steve Wozniak

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Re: Serbia grants citizenship to Steve Wozniak

#111

Post by helij »

jacquesm wrote: post #92
SergeAx wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate? I live in Serbia for two years and don't feel much xenophobia towards me. I am aware of above-average homophobic sentiment here, and some hate towards ex-Yugoslav neighbors, but hey, they were at war and it is mutual.

I take issue with the "least xenophobic places out there nowadays", I don't think that needs further elaboration, it would require a lot of work to establish that any place is compatible with that label and based on what I've seen Serbia likely would not be close to the top of the list, you give two nice examples already and I would have a couple of others.

You seem to always pop up when there's a thread about Serbia and you always post about Serbs and Serbia in a negative context no matter what it's about. I lived in Serbia for 6 years and no, they are overall not xenophobic people.

Re: Serbia grants citizenship to Steve Wozniak

#112

Post by jacquesm »

helij wrote: post #111
jacquesm wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take issue with the "least xenophobic places out there nowadays", I don't think that needs further elaboration, it would require a lot of work to establish that any place is compatible with that label and based on what I've seen Serbia likely would not be close to the top of the list, you give two nice examples already and I would have a couple of others.

You seem to always pop up when there's a thread about Serbia and you always post about Serbs and Serbia in a negative context no matter what it's about. I lived in Serbia for 6 years and no, they are overall not xenophobic people.

> You seem to always pop up when there's a thread about Serbia and you always post about Serbs and Serbia in a negative context no matter what it's about. I lived in Serbia for 6 years and no, they are overall not xenophobic people.

That's bullshit, twice over. For one I don't pop up in every thread about Serbia (and a casual inspection of your comment history shows that you in fact do exactly that), for another I have not made the claim that they are overall xenophobic people, that's your strawman.

I wouldn't make the claim that people from NL (where I'm from), Germany, Serbia or any other country that I'm familiar with is "the least xenophobic places out there nowadays".

If you can prove the opposite I'll be happy to take it back. Just like those other countries I've mentioned Serbia has it's problems. Denying that doesn't make it so.

Re: Serbia grants citizenship to Steve Wozniak

#113

Post by the_af »

mc32 wrote: post #93
the_af wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being written in Latin script is not a guarantee on correct pronunciation Yes, I understand this: being a Spanish native speaker, I had to learn the rules of pronunciation of the English language. Spanish is also pronounced as written, mostly. You can figure it out, so it's still better to spell English names in English, Serb names in Serb, and so on. The only concession I will make is leaving out extraneous accent…

If my name were John and I moved to Brazil should I be mad if people call me Joao, or if Sebastian, Sebastiao? It’s no big deal. There was a Mexican dude whose parents named him Joe, but they pronounced it something close to /Dzoe’/, so neither /Dzou/ nor /Xoe/. I think he was better off going by Joe over here.

Mad is up to you.

But John and Joao are definitely not the same name. If someone asks you "is your name John or Joao?", even in Brazil there's only one right answer. At best you can say "both names can trace their origin to the same root name", but they are not the same name.

The Mexican guy's name or your anecdote is named Joe (but pronounced like he or his parents wanted it). There are no two ways about it.

In Argentina and Uruguay some people are called "Jonathan", only pronounced "Shonatan" (or in some Spanish pronunciations, "Yonatan"). That's the way it is.

Finally, phonetically spelling the name and surname of a known celebrity, as in Wozniak's case, just seems silly to me.

Is the president of the US You Baiden? That's a phonetic spelling in Spanish, after all! (Silly, right?).

Re: Serbia grants citizenship to Steve Wozniak

#114

Post by kazinator »

the_af wrote: post #113
mc32 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my name were John and I moved to Brazil should I be mad if people call me Joao, or if Sebastian, Sebastiao? It’s no big deal. There was a Mexican dude whose parents named him Joe, but they pronounced it something close to /Dzoe’/, so neither /Dzou/ nor /Xoe/. I think he was better off going by Joe over here.

Mad is up to you. But John and Joao are definitely not the same name. If someone asks you "is your name John or Joao?", even in Brazil there's only one right answer. At best you can say "both names can trace their origin to the same root name", but they are not the same name. The Mexican guy's name or your anecdote is named Joe (but pronounced like he or his parents wanted it). There are no two ways about it. In Arge…

> there's only one right answer.

If your name could be both John and Joao, then that would be, "Yes!"

Re: Serbia grants citizenship to Steve Wozniak

#115

Post by dbrgn »

vasac wrote: post #57
dbrgn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...I guess unless you're one of the minorities, or speak the "wrong" accent. Then all of a sudden you're not welcome anymore.

Please do share what's happening with minorities and people with the wrong accent daily in Serbia. I live there, perhaps I'm missing something. P.S. my accent is also wrong, should I be afraid?

I only have some annecdotal stories, from a friend who grew up in Croatia and then had to flee during the Yugoslavia war, where one of the parents is Serbian and the other is Albanian. The stories are both from his childhood (being pushed into the sea as a kid, because they noticed he's from a certain group, not being sold bread as a kid because he used the wrong word when ordering) and from recent years (e.g. getting beaten up at a bar by a group of people, because from his accent it was clear he wasn't from that area).

I'm not trying to say that Serbia sucks, or that Serbs suck, or that all Serbs are like that, or anything in that direction. Almost all people I personally know from ex-Yugoslavia (including Serbia) are great people. But – especially given the conflict-rich history of that area – there are still a lot of conflicts and animosities between ethnic groups, and Serbia also has its fair share of xenophobia (in contrast to what GP suggested in their comment).

Re: Serbia grants citizenship to Steve Wozniak

#116

Post by simondotau »

PopAlongKid wrote: post #37
simondotau wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That one notable exception also charges a tax for renouncing citizenship.

You mean the income tax on income sourced to the U.S. prior to leaving?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2015/10/23/u-s-has-w...

Re: Serbia grants citizenship to Steve Wozniak

#117

Post by vsnf »

mc32 wrote: post #50
vsnf wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No thanks, I'd prefer to keep my name the way I identify with it. I'd only do it when a name's original script is not legible to the populace of the residing culture.

People are too attached. If you move to Japan of China you will have to transliterate your name or adopt a local name. Unless you’re Japanese or Chinese there is no way around it. I love localized names. So I like what the Serbians did for Steve here. In any event it’s his name but it’s their language and they get to spell it according to their transliteration rules.

>If you move to Japan of China you will have to transliterate your name or adopt a local name.

I can't speak for China, but I can speak for Japan. I occasionally transliterate my name for one reason or another, but 99% of the time I'm rocking my name the way I identify with it. Don't mistake me for not participating the local culture. I speak the language, the government (city and federal), and my employer, a local firm, all use my latin name on all official documents and informal communications. My coworkers and friends will usually use my latin spelling as well. Bear in mind, these are usually mixed-provenance sentences where they'll switch to latin for my name in the middle of an otherwise fully native sentence. I'm happy to transliterate it when the situation calls for it but I'd prefer it not be forced on me if it can be helped.

To answer a sibling comment, do I identify it more spoken or written, I would say the written form. I'm tolerant of accents, foreign languages with separate syllabaries, verbal typos, and other such errata, so I don't really care strongly how my name is pronounced as long as an earnest attempt is made.

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