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Sexism

kswizz.com

11–20 of 47 posts

Re: Sexism

#11
"If somebody cannot handle some crudeness, I’d postulate that he or she does not belong at a startup, regardless of gender. Because, when shit hits the fan, as it invariably does, we need people who can take it."

What does crude language have to do with ability to handle startup situations where "shit hits the fan"? Someone who dislikes offensive language is somehow unable to handle fast-paced or stressful situations on the job?

Re: Sexism

#12
> A startup is an intensely stressful environment, and staying sane is crucial.

Imagine that you had been denied access to work purely because of your sex. Or your eye colour. Or something else trivial but outside your control.

Imagine that people said your code was shoddy because of this thing. Imagine that every hour of every day someone made some comment or joke about this thing.

Eventually you'd get a bit pissed off.

You may write a calm blog post pointing out the problems caused by the attitudes of people who don't like brown eyes.

And you get a bunch of people calling you weak and dumb and up-tight. So those people can say what they like, all day every day, and you just have to lighten up, and if you ever say anything (no matter how calmly you say it) they mock you.

You can see how annoying that would be.

> A startup is an intensely stressful environment

That's no reason to accept unacceptable behaviour. We should be working to make things better for everyone. We should be helping people who have good contributions. Saying that startups are stressful becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Re: Sexism

#13

It's very depressing to see very intelligent people knowingly ignore their received benefit from serious, dehumanizing and alienating structural problems. Nobody thinks the artificial equalization provided by things like affirmative action actually is equality - the hope is that by putting a finger on the scale in favor of equality of opportunity, eventually society (after several generations of induced equity) will…

"Nobody thinks the artificial equalization provided by things like affirmative action actually is equality" Do you really think that if women dominated tech, people would be clamoring for more men in it? The few nurses I know have no trouble with the lack of men in their profession. Maybe they're just sexist?

I know a few people who are concerned about the lack of men in primary education (UK - ages 4 to 11) or in nursing and other work.

Re: Sexism

#14
post #11

"If somebody cannot handle some crudeness, I’d postulate that he or she does not belong at a startup, regardless of gender. Because, when shit hits the fan, as it invariably does, we need people who can take it." What does crude language have to do with ability to handle startup situations where "shit hits the fan"? Someone who dislikes offensive language is somehow unable to handle fast-paced or stressful situations…

He's using it as a litmus test. When people are in fast-paced or stressful situations on the job, the mental "PC filter" can begin to break down, and people may say things they wouldn't have. You can condemn this, but it can happen to the best of us. When it does, it's nice to have a group of people whom the occasional uncouth or unthinking comment rolls off their back like water on ducks.

Re: Sexism

#15

It's very depressing to see very intelligent people knowingly ignore their received benefit from serious, dehumanizing and alienating structural problems. Nobody thinks the artificial equalization provided by things like affirmative action actually is equality - the hope is that by putting a finger on the scale in favor of equality of opportunity, eventually society (after several generations of induced equity) will…

"Nobody thinks the artificial equalization provided by things like affirmative action actually is equality" Do you really think that if women dominated tech, people would be clamoring for more men in it? The few nurses I know have no trouble with the lack of men in their profession. Maybe they're just sexist?

If nursing and primary education were the glamorous professions where the next generation of billionaires were coming from, there might be more clamoring.

Re: Sexism

#16

It's very depressing to see very intelligent people knowingly ignore their received benefit from serious, dehumanizing and alienating structural problems. Nobody thinks the artificial equalization provided by things like affirmative action actually is equality - the hope is that by putting a finger on the scale in favor of equality of opportunity, eventually society (after several generations of induced equity) will…

"Nobody thinks the artificial equalization provided by things like affirmative action actually is equality" Do you really think that if women dominated tech, people would be clamoring for more men in it? The few nurses I know have no trouble with the lack of men in their profession. Maybe they're just sexist?

there are actually large national and industry-wide efforts to recruit men into nursing. and, in fact, being a male nurse is a huge boon to one's career. though men are only 6% of the nursing population, far more of them have advanced certifications. we'll probably disagree about the reasons for this, but the result is they are more desirable and paid more.

maybe the female nurses you know are happy to have a job where their opinions are respected by their peers. have you actually asked them or are you just assuming because they've never discussed it with you?

Re: Sexism

#17
Did he read the "Lighten Up" article that he himself linked to? Because it does a great job explaining why "lighten up" is an awful and often offensive response to sexism in the workplace.

We should always strive to remove sexism/racism/whatever-ism from our lives. Even if it's a little bothersome that you shouldn't be calling people "retarded" (or "gay" or "n-----").

Re: Sexism

#18

It's very depressing to see very intelligent people knowingly ignore their received benefit from serious, dehumanizing and alienating structural problems. Nobody thinks the artificial equalization provided by things like affirmative action actually is equality - the hope is that by putting a finger on the scale in favor of equality of opportunity, eventually society (after several generations of induced equity) will…

"Nobody thinks the artificial equalization provided by things like affirmative action actually is equality" Do you really think that if women dominated tech, people would be clamoring for more men in it? The few nurses I know have no trouble with the lack of men in their profession. Maybe they're just sexist?

I have heard stories of male nurses being repeatedly passed over for promotions. Maybe your closing question was meant to be rhetorical, but the answer just might be "yes".

Re: Sexism

#19
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Nobody thinks the artificial equalization provided by things like affirmative action actually is equality" Do you really think that if women dominated tech, people would be clamoring for more men in it? The few nurses I know have no trouble with the lack of men in their profession. Maybe they're just sexist?

I know a few people who are concerned about the lack of men in primary education (UK - ages 4 to 11) or in nursing and other work.

In education at least, this is usually due to the desire to include strong male role models in childrens' lives, not in a mission for equality.

Re: Sexism

#20
This person is ostensibly is in favor of gender equality, but he believes that the problem has been overstated and it will simply solve itself. He believes that the world has become more gender-equal in the past decades not because of the relentless struggle of radical feminists, but because somehow men decided to become more civilized. Power struggles are a concept that's alien to him. He's too young to know about a society just a few decades ago in which women weren't able to go to the banks and receive loans without their husbands' permission. He doesn't realize that Mad Men really takes place in our 60s, that is, two generations ago. He hasn't spent enough time trying to picture how it'd be like to be 1 woman in the company of 10 "brogrammers". He doesn't understand that the "brogrammers" are more likely to hire more "brogrammers" until some exogenous force (like Etsy's initiative) fights against that.

In the end, I think that he doesn't believe that women's oppression is real. It reminds me of that Kurt Vonnegut letter that was in the front page a few weeks ago. And also of the following (taken from a talk by David Graeber):

"Women are always expected to imagine what things look like from a male point of view. Men are almost never expected to reciprocate. So deeply internalized is this pattern of behavior that many men react to the suggestion that they might do otherwise as if it were an act of violence in itself. A popular exercise among High School creative writing teachers in America, for example, is to ask students to imagining they have been transformed, for a day, into someone of the opposite sex, and describe what that day might be like. The results, apparently, are uncannily uniform. The girls all write long and detailed essays that clearly show they have spent a great deal of time thinking about the subject. Half of the boys usually refuse to write the essay entirely. Those who do make it clear they have not the slightest conception what being a teenage girl might be like, and deeply resent having to think about it."

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