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Python 3.0 Released

python.org

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Re: Python 3.0 Released

#11

Post by joestrickler »

petercooper wrote: post #3

So much cleaner and more consistent. Classic classes are gone for good! Unlike with other languages (which I won't name for fear of offense!) I think Pythonistas will actually migrate to this much improved Python (well, forgetting the 10% performance hit) especially as such focus has been put into making tools to make it easier, unlike with PHP 4->5 (oops..!)

Sorry, no. I do most of my work in Python and would love to see quick Py3k adoption. But 2.3 was released 29-Jul-2003 and is still the baseline for portable code. Pythonistas are just as much a victim to the forces against migration as PHP and "other language" coders.

Just for kicks, try getting a stable webapp stack running on 2.6. I'm still not near ready to put that into production (and I run tiny, tiny websites).

Re: Python 3.0 Released

#13

Post by lacker »

joestrickler wrote: post #11
petercooper wrote: post #3

So much cleaner and more consistent. Classic classes are gone for good! Unlike with other languages (which I won't name for fear of offense!) I think Pythonistas will actually migrate to this much improved Python (well, forgetting the 10% performance hit) especially as such focus has been put into making tools to make it easier, unlike with PHP 4->5 (oops..!)

Sorry, no. I do most of my work in Python and would love to see quick Py3k adoption. But 2.3 was released 29-Jul-2003 and is still the baseline for portable code. Pythonistas are just as much a victim to the forces against migration as PHP and "other language" coders. Just for kicks, try getting a stable webapp stack running on 2.6. I'm still not near ready to put that into production (and I run tiny, tiny websites).

Google App Engine uses 2.5.2 and that seems stable.

http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/whatisgoogleappengine....

Re: Python 3.0 Released

#14

Post by bdr »

I'm ambivalent about changing so many functions to return iterators. It's cleaner for experienced coders, but harder to understand for beginners.

Re: Python 3.0 Released

#15

Post by msie »

illumen wrote: post #5

Remember python 3.0 is supposed to be an intermediate for migration release... not for production use. That's what 3.1 is for. It's going to take ages for modules to get converted over... but most projects have been preparing for it for a while. However hopefully the migration scripts will get better over the 3.0 - 3.1 timeline. For now I'm sticking with python 2.5 - since it's the best one considering it's far bette…

Initially I was excited about 3.0 but as you pointed out it will take some time for modules to get converted over. I think this is very important. For me, one of the big selling points of Python is the large number of libraries written for it. With my luck I will need to use an obscure library that won't be updated any time soon by the author. So I'll have to stick with 2.5 or 2.6 because I need to get my job done rather than migrate a library.

It's sort of a chicken-and-egg problem because without widespread use of 3.0 no one will feel pressure to upgrade their library. I'm hoping, out of the goodness of their own hearts, that everyone will upgrade their libraries (for no immediate benefit but the gratitude of 3.0 users!). Maybe a website badge should be created for this accomplishment!

Re: Python 3.0 Released

#17

Post by mahipal »

petercooper wrote: post #3

So much cleaner and more consistent. Classic classes are gone for good! Unlike with other languages (which I won't name for fear of offense!) I think Pythonistas will actually migrate to this much improved Python (well, forgetting the 10% performance hit) especially as such focus has been put into making tools to make it easier, unlike with PHP 4->5 (oops..!)

Any elaboration on where the 10% performance hit comes from?

I read over the "What's New" and Guido's announcement, but I didn't find any mention of it.

Re: Python 3.0 Released

#18

Post by kaens »

joestrickler wrote: post #11
petercooper wrote: post #3

So much cleaner and more consistent. Classic classes are gone for good! Unlike with other languages (which I won't name for fear of offense!) I think Pythonistas will actually migrate to this much improved Python (well, forgetting the 10% performance hit) especially as such focus has been put into making tools to make it easier, unlike with PHP 4->5 (oops..!)

Sorry, no. I do most of my work in Python and would love to see quick Py3k adoption. But 2.3 was released 29-Jul-2003 and is still the baseline for portable code. Pythonistas are just as much a victim to the forces against migration as PHP and "other language" coders. Just for kicks, try getting a stable webapp stack running on 2.6. I'm still not near ready to put that into production (and I run tiny, tiny websites).

I run a stable CherryPy app on 2.6 . It was a bit painful for about a week after 2.6 came out, but became stable pretty fast.

There are a whole lot of possibilities for a "webapp stack" in python. What are you running your sites on top of?

Re: Python 3.0 Released

#19

Post by kaens »

mahipal wrote: post #17
petercooper wrote: post #3

So much cleaner and more consistent. Classic classes are gone for good! Unlike with other languages (which I won't name for fear of offense!) I think Pythonistas will actually migrate to this much improved Python (well, forgetting the 10% performance hit) especially as such focus has been put into making tools to make it easier, unlike with PHP 4->5 (oops..!)

Any elaboration on where the 10% performance hit comes from? I read over the "What's New" and Guido's announcement, but I didn't find any mention of it.

Most likely the biggest cause is the removal of special-casing for small integers.

http://docs.python.org/dev/3.0/whatsnew/3.0.html#performance

I'm anticipating a more thorough discussion of this on python-list or python-dev in the near future.

Re: Python 3.0 Released

#20

Post by rbanffy »

I loved it, but I still want better threading and multi-core support in CPython... Most desktops now have two cores and it doesn't seem likely that number will fall anytime soon...
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