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Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

reuters.com

441–450 of 649 posts

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#441

A paranoid part of me has wondered if some of the text/phone spam we all receive is actually used to stimulate cellphones for tracking purposes. If you have deeper access to the OS, then fingerprint unlock or FaceID also seem important for positive identification prior to, for example, a Predator strike.

I don't think so. I'm German and receive the spam, even though I can be tracked using SMS messages that aren't shown on the display at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS#Silent_SMS Plus, you can always ask the carriers to which tower(s) a phone is connected and simply triangulate from there, without sending any (user) data to the phone.

It's important to know that the entire worldwide mobile phone network needs to have a reasonable estimation of the location of each device in order to work.

"Phone call for XYZ", "SMS for XYZ", "Establish TCP connection to XYZ". Every single device that hears this has to decode the message to the point that it can say "Nope, this isn't for me. Ignore". You've got billions of devices online at once, doing things that require messages to be sent to them. The network has to find a way to broadcast these messages to the tiniest geographic area that it possibly can, or else the whole thing breaks down. So yes, there are plenty of completely normal, standard ways that the network can make your phone say "I'm over here" without anything showing up on your screen.

(I worked at Motorola in infrastructure tech for many years)

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The director of the NIH is a prime example of a position the people should have direct control over. As is the police captain. Are you claiming otherwise? Have we really forgotten about 2020 so soon?

People are already overwhelmed by having to vote for the superintendent of their sanitation district

That’s part of the ploy. Give people a million menial jobs to elect so they feel exhausted by the process instead of demanding to have control over the real power.

See also the California senators, which have at this point been unilaterally appointed by Gavin rather than elected by the people. If that wasn’t bad enough, he appointed this latest one based on a personal promise made to put a Black woman in the seat, in exchange for some union to aid in his personal election campaign.

If anyone cared about civics, separation of power, or indeed democracy itself, there’d be rioting in the streets.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#443
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no it's more like: don’t have a smartphone and you are good (perhaps).

No, having a dumb phone is not enough. A malicious actor can pretend they need to deliver an SMS to you, which may result in a network disclosing your location (anywhere in the world). Mobile networks probably don't honour aggressive probing for just about any peer but it's not like nobody can do this at scale. None of this is new.

Dumb phones give up your location info just as smart phones do, but smart phones collect and leak a lot more data on top of your location.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#444
post #150

Would be great to see an example of notification metadata that can supposedly link it to real users. Seems like this is what is being implied: Given: - users with notifications enabled - have X app installed - targeted user(s) reside in USA - targeted users(s) following “foo” on X app When: - issue FISA warrant for all smartphone users that received notifications in regards to “foo” user Then: - able to pull all Appl…

Just to make it crystal clear, we recently learned that the FBI served Twitter a search warrant for Trumps account which gave then access to all of his twitter followers. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66365643.amp

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#445
post #416

The only way out of this mess is with new laws and that will require new lawmakers. Any other solution - relying on the kindness of corporations, toiling away with obscure technologies, gong 'off the grid' - are all foolish or unrealistic for 99% or so of people and shouldn't even be considered. The most promising starting point is probably at the state level.

I'm not sure new laws will matter much considering they've been breaking the existing laws through creative interpretation.

This legal structure of governance already kills so many people unintentionally, it's unethical to keep trying to reform it when it was designed from flawed principles. Time for a full redesign.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being prohibited from disclosure does not in any way refute their promise to refuse. It would make it hard to prove one way or the other, but that is not the same problem.

But if they fail in their refusal, we would not know. So you have to treat it as if they have already failed and plan accordingly.

This is really the conclusion of the debate over whether privacy protections should be legal or technological.

The answer is both, which in particular means that they have to be technological. We need to prove their inability to defect with math because otherwise they can just lie about it.

What you need from the law is the right for everybody to use that kind of technology by default.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gosh I am so happy to have like the best senator in the senate next to Bernie Sanders in Oregon. Oregon is an extremely based state. Y'all crap on PDX but the reality is that we have more freedom and less tyranny here than in any other state in the nation, and possibly in the world. PDX is "bad" because it's one of the only places in the world that hated the cops enough to actually muzzle them - and not living in fea…

> Want to smoke weed? The tyranny of the masses is still a tyranny. I'd personally like to move to a state where all smoking, but at least weed smoking, is illegal. I really don't like second hand smoke, especially when it smells and hangs as much as weed smoke does.

It's already not legal to smoke in public for weed and in most places for cigarettes. Frankly I don't think outright prohibition addresses that any better than the existing system. Nor do I see how having bodily autonomy is necessarily a tyranny of the masses.

In all seriousness, Utah sounds like your ideal so long as you stay outside of Salt Lake City. I'm glad to no longer be a resident

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google-free Android will allow you (force you) to use alternative push servers. That could be your own server (using something like Unified Push) or querying your apps' servers directly. This comes at the cost of battery life, sometimes significantly so, but it does decentralise the notification system. Of course, your data will still be in the hands of app vendors unless you choose your apps wisely. You should also…

Parent is asking about government surveillance. You're suggesting a deviation from the norm (99.99% of users) by installing a custom operating system (which they will now also be on the hook to secure and update regularly) by developers with nothing to lose. This will greatly increase scrutiny on you, or colloquially speaking definitely put you on a watch list, the opposite of what is allegedly desired. Rather, accep…

> This will greatly increase scrutiny on you, or colloquially speaking definitely put you on a watch list

Every last one of us is being constantly surveilled by the government. If there is any kind of "list" individuals can get on at this point, it's reserved for a very small number of people who are ignored or whose data is excluded.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#449

We at the Home Assistant Companion for iOS team have been wanting to implement end to end encryption for our push notifications for a while now but Apple has denied our request for the com.apple.developer.usernotifications.filtering [0] entitlement multiple times. Wondering if with today's news we could apply again and get it. For context, we are sending ~35 million push notifications per month on iOS and ~67 million…

Are the ones on Android encrypted i wonder? I hope so

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He even inspired Snowden to expose the illegal mass surveillance programs. IIRC Snowden reached a breaking point when James Clapper, then director of national intelligence, lied under oath to Congress when pressed about domestic surveillance by senator Wyden. It's sad we don't hear more about people like this in positions of power.

Good thing there is no penalties for lying under oath anymore. That pesky rule of law was so long in the tooth.

Um try that in a normal court as a citizen and you get your ass handed to you. Only the powerful get exceptions.
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