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The 501 Developer Manifesto

501manifesto.org

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Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#41

Post by cpeterso »

vasco wrote: post #24
agentultra wrote: post #12

Funny thing is that I prefer to go home @ 5 as well... but when I do get home I often read books about programming, catch up on articles and papers, or work on some amusing side-project. Often I'll learn some maths, experiment with some new approaches to solving problems, or watch screen casts to learn how other people approach the craft. I don't do it because I'm some corporate shill. I just really love programming.…

You would get payed if you stayed longer? Here (Portugal) it's common practice for every kind of dev to work overtime with no extra pay, it's seen as a trait of the job and it's not just when there's a huge deadline, because there always is.

Same in the US. I have never heard of software developers (who work as full-time employees) earning overtime pay. I'm not sure if contractors who bill hours are eligible for overtime pay.

Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#42

Post by cpeterso »

hartez wrote: post #7

This is excellent, and I'm fully behind it. Some of the best coworkers I've ever had were 5:01'ers - they got things done on time because they had to, and they didn't burn out. Just don't break the build at 4:59. That's all I ask.

I suspect that many people who work long hours may be spending time on non-work diversions. HN? ;)

People who leave at 5:01 may prioritize their time better.

Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#44

Post by markrendle »

SarahJane wrote: post #39
markrendle wrote: post #33

Look, the people you are "pitying" are the people you depend on: we make your operating systems, your languages, your frameworks, your tools; we invent the things you use; we create your social networks; we abstract away the things you find too hard; we built the very internet you're using to mock us. Do not fuck with us, for without us, you would be a clerk in a dusty room writing out invoices with a pen.

Why are you assuming "501 developers" don't do any of the things you list? I think the point is that you can have balance in your life and be a good & passionate coder.

You can have balance in your life and be a good coder. I think balance and passion are mutually exclusive, though,

Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#45

Post by pnathan »

I don't really want to work with people who are unmotivated and just "Do their time and go". I've done it; I've worked in crappy jobs. Those jobs were, e.g., cashier at fast food joint. Or stocker at department store. Everyone wanted to leave. No one wanted to be there.

I am not really up to dealing with the harsh cynicism and assumptions of uselessness of our work with someone who leaves as soon as possible. Doesn't mean I don't like going home early. I do... But if your goal is to clock in at 8:30 and exit at 5:01, just to do the bare minimum, I can't jibe with that. I've worked with people like that... and I don't want to do it again.

Regards, pity, etc.

Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#46

Post by edwinnathaniel »

zmoazeni wrote: post #14

I don't classify myself as a 501 developer. I'm probably the opposite that they're rallying against. But I don't dismiss 501ers. Two things strike me from the manifesto. Since I've become a parent, I've noticed 5:00 has become more important to me. We put our kids down to bed around 8:00, so I only have a few hours of quality time with them each day. Secondly, there are just things you won't learn on the job. And tha…

Anyone that is not a parent yet will never understand and will never value such quality time.

... and I'm guessing that's the majority HN readers.

There's only 24 hours in a day, no more no less.

Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#47

Post by agentultra »

vasco wrote: post #24
agentultra wrote: post #12

Funny thing is that I prefer to go home @ 5 as well... but when I do get home I often read books about programming, catch up on articles and papers, or work on some amusing side-project. Often I'll learn some maths, experiment with some new approaches to solving problems, or watch screen casts to learn how other people approach the craft. I don't do it because I'm some corporate shill. I just really love programming.…

You would get payed if you stayed longer? Here (Portugal) it's common practice for every kind of dev to work overtime with no extra pay, it's seen as a trait of the job and it's not just when there's a huge deadline, because there always is.

I have worked in places where overtime was just a part of the job and I didn't last in such places for very long.

I have at times had to suffer such treatment because I needed the paycheck even if I wasn't getting paid extra for the extra hours.

However there was still the choice to leave such a job and deal with the consequences.

On one occasion I wasn't even given the choice. It was expected and I didn't live up to those expectations. I wasn't that upset in the end because even though money was tight for a while I still made it through and got another job within a couple of weeks. I was much happier in the new position and most of the people I knew who worked for that company eventually left anyway.

At some companies I would get paid for the extra time or at least would be given paid time off later on. I just had to ask. Otherwise I would just go home at my normal time.

These days I probably wouldn't even work over time if you paid me extra. I only work overtime if I made a promise to deliver something by a certain date (and I rarely make those promises unless I'm certain) or if I have some stake in the company. That's largely because I'm in a position where I'm not living paycheck to paycheck anymore and don't need to work for my employers if I don't want to.

Admittedly if you're just starting out or this kind of "overtime culture," is pervasive everywhere ymmv.

Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#48

Post by zacharyvoase »

AznHisoka wrote: post #40
zacharyvoase wrote: post #31

“It’s just a job.” It's just 8 hours a day. 5 days a week. Roughly 25% of your life. Another 33.3% is spent asleep. Maybe you commute to work; maybe that takes you 45 minutes each way. That's 4.4% of your life spent driving, walking, on trains or buses to get to your job. You're going to spend a small percentage of your life on the toilet; another small percentage in supermarkets buying food, in a kitchen preparing i…

What are you now pursuing or starting now?

I'm not entirely sure yet :)

Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#49

Post by SarahJane »

markrendle wrote: post #44
SarahJane wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you assuming "501 developers" don't do any of the things you list? I think the point is that you can have balance in your life and be a good & passionate coder.

You can have balance in your life and be a good coder. I think balance and passion are mutually exclusive, though,

I don't think balance and passion are mutually exclusive. That would be conflating passion and obsession.
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