Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#831

Post by robk » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 3:30 PM UTC

dwaite wrote: post #771

rattray wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently paid >$1000 for the privilege of access to iMessage when switching from Android to iPhone. I'd have been _much_ happier staying on my preferred operating system and paying $24/yr. (iMessage has, for me, actually been worth it - but still, I frequently find myself wishing that something like Beeper Mini existed so I could go back to android).

You switched from Android _just_ for iMessage? Why on earth for? Could you elaborate?

it's very hard to socialize with non-techies in the US without it. you miss so much.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#832

Post by tekknik » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 3:31 PM UTC

jackjeff wrote: post #759

hansoolo wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly what I thought

But EU interoperability laws are cancelled out by DMCA (aka EUCD). That’s why reading a DVD with VLC has always been “technically” illegal. If Apple is able to update the protocol in such a way that it requires some kind of signed attestation from the secure enclave (basically a DRM) they’ll get legal protection. Also. Nobody uses iMessage in the EU. It’s all WhatsApp here. Blue bubbles are an American obsession.

> Blue bubbles are an American obsession.

No it’s not, it’s an obsession by a small number of users, not widespread at all.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#833

Post by hbn » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:01 PM UTC

TrueDuality wrote: post #812

The biggest question I have is what does the exit story look like? I know it's a common problem for people switching to Android from an iPhone (keeping their phone number) and not receiving any messages from iPhones as their contacts are still trying to send via iMessage. What happens at the end of the trial when I choose it's not for me. Will I suddenly loose my ability to text with every Apple user? What about in t…

Apple has a form to de-register a number from iMessage here:

https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#834

Post by koffiezet » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:05 PM UTC

remram wrote: post #474

nroets wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple can break Beeper without relying on the secure enclave: If Apple devices just send their serial number (IMEI for their GSM products), their servers can refuse to talk to hardware they didn't manufacture.

Non-Apple devices could just lie

Not if they require a certificate containing the serial number/imei/... + a nonce provided by Apple, signed with a private key/certificate stored in the secured enclave, loaded into the device when it's manufactured.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#835

Post by hbn » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:05 PM UTC

Workaccount2 wrote: post #828

TrueDuality wrote: post #812

The biggest question I have is what does the exit story look like? I know it's a common problem for people switching to Android from an iPhone (keeping their phone number) and not receiving any messages from iPhones as their contacts are still trying to send via iMessage. What happens at the end of the trial when I choose it's not for me. Will I suddenly loose my ability to text with every Apple user? What about in t…

Someone on r/android reported that they could not receive messages from iPhones once they uninstalled the app. They had to remove their contact from the iPhone and re add it to fall back to SMS. Someone else commented that you can de-register your number on Apple's site, but the person then said that it didn't work either. So yeah, I am holding back on it to until there is more clarity about this. The overwhelming ma…

> Someone else commented that you can de-register your number on Apple's site, but the person then said that it didn't work either.

I don't know how Beeper could possibly prevent Apple's iMessage deregister form[1] from not working. Apple handles whether or not you have an iMessage account, not Beeper. It might take a bit for it to fully be purged, but this was only announced/launched less than a day ago so I can't believe that person really waited before confirming it somehow doesn't work.

[1] https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#836

Post by underlines » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:10 PM UTC

Gives me Trillian vibes.

So let's introduce my bias:

All Multi-Messengers in the past that relied on reverse engineering proprietary protocols vanished.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#837

Post by Workaccount2 » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:12 PM UTC

hbn wrote: post #835

Workaccount2 wrote: post #828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone on r/android reported that they could not receive messages from iPhones once they uninstalled the app. They had to remove their contact from the iPhone and re add it to fall back to SMS. Someone else commented that you can de-register your number on Apple's site, but the person then said that it didn't work either. So yeah, I am holding back on it to until there is more clarity about this. The overwhelming ma…

> Someone else commented that you can de-register your number on Apple's site, but the person then said that it didn't work either. I don't know how Beeper could possibly prevent Apple's iMessage deregister form[1] from not working. Apple handles whether or not you have an iMessage account, not Beeper. It might take a bit for it to fully be purged, but this was only announced/launched less than a day ago so I can't b…

They complained that when they entered their number to de-register, they were presented with a "number not found" error. Which seems like a plausible error for a backdoor imessage implementation.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#838

Post by Spoom » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:14 PM UTC

crystaln wrote: post #782

berkes wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Section 1201 provides for felony liability for anyone commercially engaged in bypassing a DRM system: 5 years in prison and a $500,000 fine for a first offense." So it's even worse than the risk of being taken down. Way worse. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/10/drms-dead-canary-how-w...

iMessage is not DRM. It is not protecting IP.

The component that tries to identify that you're accessing it from the right device isn't DRM? I don't think courts would agree with that.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#839

Post by hbn » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:16 PM UTC

skiman10 wrote: post #419

andrewshadura wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been around for ages, and Apple has taken no action so far.

It has never been this easy and it has never been behind a subscription fee.

Yes it has... Beeper, before Beeper Mini.

Using the aforementioned Mac Mini server farm method.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#840

Post by smt88 » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:28 PM UTC

hbn wrote: post #824

smt88 wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what you're talking about. I get far more SMS spam on iOS than I did on Android. Whether the number uses iMessage or not is totally irrelevant.

How can you get more SMS spam on one platform than another? With SMS they're just blindly sending to your phone number, your SIM could be in any device. They don't know what platform you're receiving it on.

Android is much better at blocking it.

There were also differences in the platforms with how/when your phone number can leak to spammers and data aggregators, although I'm no longer deep enough into mobile OS or related CVEs to know current details.