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Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

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Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#151

Post by mrweasel »

piva00 wrote: post #24
lnsru wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in Munich right now. Bavaria should start doing something about this. Snow from Friday is still not taken care of. Public transportation still does not work. Pathetic.

A friend of mine was supposed to move from Berlin to München for a job during last Saturday. He can't, trains were fucked, airport was closed, flight canceled and you can't trust DB during the best of days and weather, no way to be sure you will get there unless you have a car. Seems to be a complete clusterfuck, as someone living in the Nordics it's pretty funny to think that a bit of snow can simply grind to a halt…

> Nordics it's pretty funny to think that a bit of snow can simply grind to a halt the richest area of Germany.

Yeaaah about that, Denmark is currently covered in snow and the country isn't equipped to deal with it at all. As soon as the snow starts falling busses and trains are cancelled, people realize that maybe winter tires aren't such a bad idea, roads aren't cleared because the cities don't actually have the budgets to deal with it. So you can't rely on public transport, but driving can be dangerous because many roads aren't kept clear and other people are idiots, driving around on summer tires (that includes busses and trucks).

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#152

Post by eddtries »

toss1 wrote: post #87
cultureswitch wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I wonder what sort of beef transport unions have with Tesla specifically. Also, I wonder if it would completely kill their margin to just have a horde of workers drive the cars individually to Sweden.

IIRC, Tesla is refusing to negotiate with an auto workers union in Sweden for a collective bargaining agreement. The other unions are targeting strikes in solidarity. Yes, it's legal, and standard.

* standard but rare. This really escalated after Tesla brought in strikebreakers and threatened the Swedish labour model which is built by Unions and not the government

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#153

Post by avgcorrection »

contrarian1234 wrote: post #73
sorenjan wrote: post #13

This and the Danish solidarity actions are mainly to prevent Tesla from shipping cars meant for the Swedish market to Danish or Norwegian ports and then trucking them to Sweden. The Swedish transport union stopped unloading Tesla cars at Swedish ports November 7, but Tesla Y was still one of the most sold car models in Sweden in November (second place between Volvo XC40 and XC60).

That doesn't sound like a strike at all. They presumably are still working and getting paid their wages Legally that seems a bit crazy that shipping company workers can select what gets shipped based on their political beliefs. Next the power utility company workers are going to refuse to give Tesla electricity

> Legally that seems a bit crazy that shipping company workers can select what gets shipped based on their political beliefs.

Brother/Sister, a strike can in principle be done for any reason.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#154

Post by notmyrealname_9 »

jebarker wrote: post #66
brightball wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does his behavior on X contradict it? I'm not following.

Continually posting on social media about topics unrelated to building cars, rockets, satellites is all about influencing public perception of yourself. So clearly he does care what people think of him and actively spends time managing that.

I'm regularly posting on the media simply to check, if I'm wrong about something - and, more importantly, if so, why. It's not necessarily trolling, when someone posts an opinion, that is "out there".

In that sense, I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt there, but I don't understand why he has to do it with his real name.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#155

Post by ExoticPearTree »

holgerschurig wrote: post #128
njarboe wrote: post #65

From what I understand Tesla employees in Sweden do not want to join a/the union. The IF Metall union I believe. So these actions are unions trying to force people to do something they don't want to do. If people are happy working for Tesla without a union (stock options, flexible work rules, etc.) from my (American) perspective, why should they be forced to create an additional administrative system you would have t…

Well, then you completely misunderstanding things. It's not about joining, not at all. Actually what they ask for changes things for all employees of an industry (e.g. cars, or generally metal), not just for unionized workers. So let me explain on this, as european union culture is VERY different from US union culture. In Europe a lot of countries have a system of "Tarifvertrag" ("tarrif contract", but really "collec…

> The effect of this is visible, e.g. when you look at efficiency of e.g. german workers compared to their US counterparts.

Can you please then explain to me how ~ 332mm people in the US are more productive than ~448mm people in the EU by almost 5 trillion dollars if the Americans are less efficient?

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#156

Post by ljm »

eggy wrote: post #84
andsoitis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If he wants to be remembered as the dude global labor had to organize against, I mean, the bar is already pretty low where he's at but perhaps we have yet to hit bedrock. Probably with a bit to be said about dying a hero or living long enough to become the villain through the appropriate lens. Highly recommend watching the full interview that Andrew Ross Sorkin did with Elon Musk (it is the one where he told advert…

Agreed, and if Norway, Sweden, and Denmark, are for the people, let the people decide whether want to buy a Tesla and support Elon. Cutting off shipping to their rightful owners sounds like you are curtailing your own citizens from living as they please. Would be interesting if they and other countries unions had stopped the shipments of iPhones to their citizen consumers due to the working conditions and no unions a…

The capitalist idea of voting with your wallet doesn't really work that way, it's throwing away the power of collective bargaining and instead leaving every man for himself, which would be an instant race to the bottom.

The workers are unionised because if they weren't, Tesla would be leading the charge on torching whatever rights workers had previously agreed to.

More countries could stand to do this, to show that it is the people who have power over corporations, not the other way around.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#157

Post by nabla9 »

holgerschurig wrote: post #128
njarboe wrote: post #65

From what I understand Tesla employees in Sweden do not want to join a/the union. The IF Metall union I believe. So these actions are unions trying to force people to do something they don't want to do. If people are happy working for Tesla without a union (stock options, flexible work rules, etc.) from my (American) perspective, why should they be forced to create an additional administrative system you would have t…

Well, then you completely misunderstanding things. It's not about joining, not at all. Actually what they ask for changes things for all employees of an industry (e.g. cars, or generally metal), not just for unionized workers. So let me explain on this, as european union culture is VERY different from US union culture. In Europe a lot of countries have a system of "Tarifvertrag" ("tarrif contract", but really "collec…

You are trying to explain the difference between sectoral collective bargaining and enterprise bargaining.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectoral_collective_bargaining

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_bargaining_agreemen...

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#158

Post by rsynnott »

Havelock wrote: post #146
stiray wrote: post #127

I think that whole thing is just a huge misunderstanding of elmu thinking that whole world works like USA. And even in USA, union members in average earn 18% more than others. On the other side, strike and unionizing is one of basic workers rights here and you just don't fight unions in EU. As you will be losing more money than if you get to an agreement with them. When elmu started his crusade against unions, I was…

Unfortunately either side can't blink. IF Metall can't back down because then other companies could get ideas to leave. And Elmu doesn't want to back down because then other countries could get ideas about unionising which would affect their bottom line.

Eh. Every other multinational that tried this bit of brinksmanship backed down, more or less, with minimal contagion. McDonalds remains un-unionised in America, say.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#159

Post by [deleted] »

contrarian1234 wrote: post #94
kristofferR wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are effectively saying: "It is crazy that they have an effective mechanism for ensuring good working conditions in their societies"

That's a very narrow view of the situation. It's not up for a small group of individuals to decide that for the whole society. Say they decide tmrw to not accept shipments from Israel. Why should a dock worker have disproportionate say in that?

[deleted]

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#160

Post by eddtries »

simion314 wrote: post #104
contrarian1234 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't sound like a strike at all. They presumably are still working and getting paid their wages Legally that seems a bit crazy that shipping company workers can select what gets shipped based on their political beliefs. Next the power utility company workers are going to refuse to give Tesla electricity

>It sets a scary precedent. They in effect hold disproportionate power and can affect whole sectors of the economy to force whatever they want done Sweden seems to have low regulation, no minimum wages so is a perfect place for an american company to take advantage, unless the peasants use their rights to strike then the billionaires are demanding regulations. As software developers we should do the same when we are…

> Tesla is free to use other companies or methods to deliver, create their own delivery companies from scratch , deliver the cars with their rockets. I do not think they can cut off the power but there could be problems finding people fixing their electrical issues if they appear.

In theory, but it's not unprecedented for payment providers to refuse to process payments so they'd not be able to pay people to even get started (if they went that way)

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