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Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

reuters.com

161–170 of 649 posts

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#161

A paranoid part of me has wondered if some of the text/phone spam we all receive is actually used to stimulate cellphones for tracking purposes. If you have deeper access to the OS, then fingerprint unlock or FaceID also seem important for positive identification prior to, for example, a Predator strike.

"We Kill People Based on Metadata"

- Michael Hayden

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#162

Metadata in this case apparently means Apple and Google are helping find “this real user connected to that real user at this time”. So governments may or may not be able to decrypt a push message payload, or data delivered because of that payload.

An interesting point in Glenn Greenwald’s book is that metadata is often more informative than the “real” data. Consider: 1. A phone call in which Mrs. Smith talks to a receptionist to set an appointment with a doctor for 9:30 next Wednesday. Vs. 2. Knowing that Mrs. Smith called an abortion clinic. #2 seems like a bigger violation of privacy. Metadata is the real data.

God forbid if you are just going on a date with someone who works at an abortion clinic.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#163

Just an evil life pro-tip... if you're doing criminal things, leave your phone at home. Or better yet, grab a "buddy's" phone.

Here is a better pro-tip- don't do criminal things.

where's the fun in that??? Live a little, be a little bit evil. Like 5% evil

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder if this is a case of American intelligence outsourcing the surveillance of American citizens to foreign intelligence. If that is indeed the case, I’d expect a quid pro quo. Yet it is the US government who revealed it: "In a letter to the Department of Justice, Senator Ron Wyden said foreign officials were demanding the data from Alphabet's (GOOGL.O) Google and Apple (AAPL.O). Although details were sparse,…

> Yet it is the US government who revealed it Less "the government" and more "a member of government", the same member who has revealed and demanded accountability when discovering domestic government overreach. We should choose our congress critters carefully.

It is a testament to our checks and balances, which, while far from perfect, are useful in preventing somewhat one branch from getting too much power.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#165

This, to me, is the more disturbing part of the article: > In this case, the federal government prohibited us from sharing any information," the company said in a statement. "Now that this method has become public we are updating our transparency reporting to detail these kinds of requests. What is the point of transparency reports if they don't include major vectors of government surveillance? IMO such gag orders sh…

perhaps that democracy is not effective when the state organs are unelected bureacrats with guns

Nine times out of ten, the person saying this will turn around and complain about all the "political hacks" running things, referring to political appointees with no experience or background in the area of government they are tasked to run.

The term "unelected bureaucrats" applies to people like...I dunno, the director of the NIH and field office managers. Heck, even a police captain is an "unelected bureaucrat". Sheesh.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress has so little power its becoming a vestigial organ. Only there to placate the masses who believe their vote makes any impact.

This is some wacko BS. Congress has tons of power which can impact your daily lives. If you think it doesn't have that power, you're just not well read on the subject. If you think modern day politics of us vs them divisiveness gives the impression that they cannot do any thing is a dangerous interpretation. It's also a bit sophomoric of an interpretation as well.

[flagged]

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#167
post #150

Would be great to see an example of notification metadata that can supposedly link it to real users. Seems like this is what is being implied: Given: - users with notifications enabled - have X app installed - targeted user(s) reside in USA - targeted users(s) following “foo” on X app When: - issue FISA warrant for all smartphone users that received notifications in regards to “foo” user Then: - able to pull all Appl…

If they use IP to deliver notifications, then the gov can demand they hand over the IP address a notification was delivered to. From there, location isn’t hard.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#168
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're kidding yourself if you think three letter agencies don't have LOS users on a list and have capabilities to spy on them on demand with tailored access.

Maybe, but for sure avoiding stock Android and Google apps increases privacy a lot.

Depends on your definition of privacy. Maybe privacy from Google, at the cost of additional scrutiny from domestic intelligence services.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#169
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because some apps use insecure but highly identifiable DNS lookups doesn’t mean everyone does, or that DNS-over-HTTPS will never be deployed (iOS shipped support in 2020 and Android was only a couple of years later). There’s a 0% chance that anyone smart would say they should rely on that alone and not develop other sources for that information, and intelligence agencies have hired many smart technical people.

In general, I agree DNS-over-HTTPS is a step in the right direction, in terms of eliminating the low-hanging fruit of snooping over the wire. But it's still the same major companies providing the resolvers. And if you're sending them an NSL for push notifications, you may as well send one for DNS too.

That’s usually untrue - for example, if I’m on Comcast but I use Firefox, my DoH requests go instead to Cloudflare who don’t log IPs – but also the larger point is that DNS isn’t complete enough: sometimes it’s unique companies but a lot of the time it’s just a shared endpoint. Push notifications don’t have that problem and happen every time, not just when a cache expires.

Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications

#170
Why do they need to confirm an already known fact: FAANG platforms are built to spy on users? We've known about this fact for at least a decade since the Snowden revelations.

Nothing has materially changed since then, technically, politically, legally, or even culturally. Yet people still believe for-profit corporations have their best interests in mind, thanks to clever marketing and groupthink, clutching to "encrypted apps" and empty "we value your privacy" double-speak: neither will defend you.

There is no privacy on proprietary closed source platforms - it is simply infeasible; it is trying to squeeze blood from a stone. I know this truth will likely trigger and upset people with their $1,000+ iPhones, MacBooks and other iToys, and this sunk cost fallacy is really pathetic to witness in grown adults.

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