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Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

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Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#811

Post by 1231232131231 »

nroets wrote: post #430
lxgr wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if they do the work to publish iMessage updates for the old iOS versions it just buys a little time before the new version gets reverse engineered There's probably a cliff in complexity. Once Apple starts requesting signed attestations from the secure enclave on the devices that have one, it's game over. They probably don't just yet, since still too many people use iMessage on first-party clients that don't ha…

Apple can break Beeper without relying on the secure enclave: If Apple devices just send their serial number (IMEI for their GSM products), their servers can refuse to talk to hardware they didn't manufacture.

I believe you can bruteforce/generate IMEIs somewhat easily. https://github.com/bstein/py-imei-generator

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#812

Post by TrueDuality »

The biggest question I have is what does the exit story look like? I know it's a common problem for people switching to Android from an iPhone (keeping their phone number) and not receiving any messages from iPhones as their contacts are still trying to send via iMessage.

What happens at the end of the trial when I choose it's not for me. Will I suddenly loose my ability to text with every Apple user? What about in the event of a service failure of your infrastructure (it says it talks directly to Apple's servers but does it also rely on you?)... What if Apple does go after you or makes a breaking change to the protocol?

In all those scenarios, what happens to my messages? Can I export and keep them?

I'm very interested to try but the potential to loose access even for a day or two is a really hard ask.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#813

Post by 1231232131231 »

dylan604 wrote: post #495
afavour wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would make sense: because Apple have deeply coupled iMessage to the OS they can’t simply roll out a new version of the app with protocol changes that would block Beeper, they’d have to release entire OS updates. No matter the method it would be a scorched earth approach. I suspect the number of people actually using Beeper will be far below a rounding error for Apple.

You say this like Apple doesn't release OS updates. Why are you putting that as some arbitrary limiter to what Apple could do to protect its walled garden?

They don't usually remove features as important as iMessage from older iOS versions. I don't believe they push updates to the iPhone 7 and older anymore, so they'd be unable to use iMessage.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#814

Post by andygeorge »

cozzyd wrote: post #564
andygeorge wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they could call it "apple blue" and charge a few bucks a month for it. People love that stuff

They can desaturate the iPhone / MacBook Air users to disambiguate from the MacBook pro / iPhone pro / max users. Also device age in years will add hints of green hue. That way people know they're talking to someone who can afford to spend thousands of dollars on hardware every year.

wait is this where "green with envy" will come from?????

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#816

Post by jeroenhd »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #544
ttul wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Apple does start enforcing signed attestations, they will say that it's to reduce abuse. I have no doubt (being in the anti-abuse world) that spammers and phishing gangs will immediately begin using Beeper to spam iMessage users because this allows them to avoid buying an iOS device. With end-to-end encryption, Apple may also decide to roll out privacy-protecting client-side spam and phishing detection, which woul…

> With end-to-end encryption, Apple may also decide to roll out privacy-protecting client-side spam and phishing detection, which would IMHO be a really great thing. Spam protection should be on the recipient , rather than the sender .

I disagree. Email has SPF and DKIM an what have you exactly because client side filtering doesn't work right. Mail gets dropped beforr the clients even get a chance to run filters.

That's not to say that requiring remote attestation or blocking third party clients entirely is proportional, but Apple should (and does) play a role in spam prevention.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#817

Post by r14n »

windexh8er wrote: post #725
rezonant wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well messaging for one thing... Some others: - Find my device features including Bluetooth ping networking (airtags, Tile, Android's upcoming network) - Airdrop/Nearby Share - Bluetooth LE proximity pairing (at least I doubt this works when pairing cross ecosystem) - Carplay/Android Auto - Airplay/Google Cast

> Find My / Airtags Another Apple ecosystem that can be used by non-Apple devices. OpenHaystack [0] has been working well for quite a while. [0] https://github.com/seemoo-lab/openhaystack

Is there a way to SEE the location of my Apple manufactured Airtags from Android?

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#818

Post by eddyg »

rattray wrote: post #666
azinman2 wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you prefer about Android?

Long list, I've been meaning to write a blog post.

Would be very interested in seeing the list of things that you feel _aren't_ possible on iOS and aren't things I'd consider extremely "niche" or purely "cosmetic". (Sadly, I'll probably never know if you ever write such a blog post...)

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#819

Post by doix »

rezonant wrote: post #795
rpdillon wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need to speculate; internal emails from the Epic trial discuss the motivations. https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/27/22406303/imessage-android... In short, Eddy Cue proposed in 2013 that Apple owning the best-in-class messaging app would be a win, and even mentioned the cost being low. Phil Schiller shut him down, arguing it would remove a barrier preventing iPhone parents from buying their kids Android phones…

They could definitely just release an app for Android instead of opening the protocol, but as an Android user I'd reject it for the same reason I reject my Apple friends suggesting we all use WhatsApp or Signal: I don't want different conversations living in different chat apps for no reason. That to me is the bad old days of Facebook Messenger+Twitter DMs+SMS where I had to remember which platform each of my contact…

Interestingly enough, in my life, WhatsApp has just won. Everyone I know uses it, people I meet when traveling use it. Pretty much every Airbnb host tries to contact me on WhatsApp. My physio right now in Malaysia organizes all my appointments on WhatsApp. But I only travel East of the UK, so Europe/Afria/Asia, I have no idea what South America is like, and can guess that it's not as ubiquitous in North America based on these threads.

I cannot remember the last time I've received a non-spam SMS. The whole iMessage thing feels so alien to me. My girlfriend is an Apple fan-girl and has never used iMessage in her life. I kinda wanted to see what was special about it and when I asked her about it, she had no idea what I was talking about.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#820

Post by nani8ot »

vmfunction wrote: post #790
bogwog wrote: post #296

This seems like it won't last, but it's AWESOME and I really hope you survive Apple's inevitable attempts to kill this. A universal chat application would be amazing, and will maybe help bring attention to the value of standards and interoperability (hopefully by governments/regulators).

>A universal chat application would be amazing It would be, however would not bet my chatting account history on a phone number. Phone number does get lost over time. Email is more reliable, but may be a private key for authentication instead. Also a modern day chat app, one would expect to have chatting over bluetooth as well Internet such as Briar, and chatting over Tor such as Quite would be much more needed.

I'm not so sure about email being more reliable than a phone number. I believe more people have a contract with their cellular provider than with their email. Free email accounts could be banned with no recourse.
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