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Thermoelectric heating stands at the brink of commercialization

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Re: Thermoelectric heating stands at the brink of commercialization

#71

Post by nirolo »

10u152 wrote: post #24

What an article of fluff. Doesn’t give any real technical/engineering information. It’s completely useless unless you show us the COP of the system at varying ambient temps. Heat pumps can get to around 4.0 that’s the number to beat.

Came for this comment. Why is there no COP/SCOP mentioned at all... If you want to get into the market you should be competitive. And the COP of 4.0 you mention is actually the lower end. I'm heating with an AC as air-to-air heatpump now for the second winter and I chose the most efficient that I could get with a SCOP of over 6. And for the first winter I also could reach these numbers.

Re: Thermoelectric heating stands at the brink of commercialization

#72

Post by nirolo »

ctechbob wrote: post #50

Dupont will see that this never sees the light of day. Just like how we don't use butane/propane/CO2 as refrigerants which are just as safe as most of the flourocarbons but have the downside of being too cheap to make any money off of.

The most efficient air-to-water heatpumps are using propane. Just look for lambda and ovum from Austria.

Re: Thermoelectric heating stands at the brink of commercialization

#73

Post by alchemist1e9 »

hijinks wrote: post #22
bilsbie wrote: post #4

I’d pay a premium for a solid state AC or heat pump. It’s absurd how much they cost to install. And I don’t get why replacing one is an all day job for three people. There should be standard connections they just plug into. Like a dishwasher.

I was quoted 10k a head unit to install mini-splits in a home in the colorado mountains. I needed 8 head units. It was nothing but "only rich people are buying these right now so lets cash in" pricing

For 8 units? That sounds like good price.

Re: Thermoelectric heating stands at the brink of commercialization

#74

Post by Loughla »

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #23
Loughla wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that effectively just suck the heat from your home? I feel like that's not a great use of your stove?

Heating with a wood stove doesn't really have a 'medium' setting. You get 100% while it's roaring away, and that slowly diminishes as the fuel burns down. (Yes you can adjust dampers, and air-flow valves to "slow it down"; but that doesn't really work/happen.) I've lived in a home heated by a wood stove for 10 years. You would build-up the stove so it blasts away, goto bed, and by morning there would be enough coals…

Yes I'm aware. I grew up with a wood stove as a primary source of heat, and hated it.

But that doesn't really address my issue. For an ambient wood stove, the heat is pushed through the house from one central spot (the stove).

If you use a system to use that heat for power or something else, aren't you just going to cool your home?

Re: Thermoelectric heating stands at the brink of commercialization

#75

Post by Loughla »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #73
hijinks wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was quoted 10k a head unit to install mini-splits in a home in the colorado mountains. I needed 8 head units. It was nothing but "only rich people are buying these right now so lets cash in" pricing

For 8 units? That sounds like good price.

That would be $80,000 total?

Re: Thermoelectric heating stands at the brink of commercialization

#76

Post by bill38 »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #73
hijinks wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was quoted 10k a head unit to install mini-splits in a home in the colorado mountains. I needed 8 head units. It was nothing but "only rich people are buying these right now so lets cash in" pricing

For 8 units? That sounds like good price.

10k per unit

Re: Thermoelectric heating stands at the brink of commercialization

#77

Post by wil421 »

hijinks wrote: post #22
bilsbie wrote: post #4

I’d pay a premium for a solid state AC or heat pump. It’s absurd how much they cost to install. And I don’t get why replacing one is an all day job for three people. There should be standard connections they just plug into. Like a dishwasher.

I was quoted 10k a head unit to install mini-splits in a home in the colorado mountains. I needed 8 head units. It was nothing but "only rich people are buying these right now so lets cash in" pricing

Would a heat pump work? 8 mini-splits sounds like way too. Mini-splits are also the cheaper option, surprised they cost $10k. A heat pump in my area wouldn't be too much more than $10k (excluding duct work).

Re: Thermoelectric heating stands at the brink of commercialization

#78

Post by grvdrm »

pishpash wrote: post #18
Retric wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re allowed to make use of the same energy at different points in time. The 1% used by the fan is the same 1% that’s heating your room. A computer converts 99.9% of the electricity to heat a room just like a space heater. However, you can play video games on the PC while it’s heating your room.

That's why all electric heating should be devices that do work or compute. Do not waste the Gibbs free energy of the universe.

I should mine BTC in my heatless basement! Love it.

Re: Thermoelectric heating stands at the brink of commercialization

#79

Post by gcanyon »

> Researchers use a dimensionless quantity called ZT to describe the strength of the thermoelectric effect in any combination of materials. Two decades ago, combinations such as lead and tellurium yielded ZT values of around 1. After ten years, the search for new, more complex, and more effective materials had yielded ZT values of 2.

These sentences are useless. Going from 1 to 2 probably means doubling the efficiency, if the base value is 0. But even if that's true (which it's not guaranteed to be) is a real-world usable value 3? or 478?

Much later in the article: "Vining predicted in 2009 that a ZT of 4 would be the required threshold for commercialization." There it is. But even with that, the information given tells us very little about the underlying property, or the technology.

Re: Thermoelectric heating stands at the brink of commercialization

#80

Post by VBprogrammer »

deedubaya wrote: post #34
bilsbie wrote: post #4

I’d pay a premium for a solid state AC or heat pump. It’s absurd how much they cost to install. And I don’t get why replacing one is an all day job for three people. There should be standard connections they just plug into. Like a dishwasher.

I was just last month quoted 15-23k for an install in the mountains of Idaho. I got a competitive quote and the price was similar. If it cut my electricity bill in half it would take 10-20 years to break even.

> If it cut my electricity bill in half it would take 10-20 years to break even.

Presumably there is a useful life on your existing heating system. At some point it would need replacing?

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