Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Firefox on the brink?

brycewray.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

691–700 of 840 posts

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#691

Post by laurent123456 »

kiwijamo wrote: post #648
laurent123456 wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always surprised to read claims that Firefox is the same or better than Chrome. I switched to Firefox recently and many sites don't quite work: for example the pull request popup menu on GitHub appears off screen so can't be clicked on; the "new post" panel in Discourse is obstructed by the keyboard; FastMail alert box buttons don't work, and many other such annoyances. It can be used as a main browser but it doe…

I am regular and long time user of Fastmail in Firefox and I'm surprised at your report of issues in Firefox. Can you describe the steps to reproduce the issues you found?

Using the Android mobile app, create a Fastmail link and add it to your home screen. Open the app, try to block a sender - it asks you to confirm and it's not possible to press either buttons.

The same workflow works fine in Chrome.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#692

Post by laurent123456 »

layer8 wrote: post #651
laurent123456 wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always surprised to read claims that Firefox is the same or better than Chrome. I switched to Firefox recently and many sites don't quite work: for example the pull request popup menu on GitHub appears off screen so can't be clicked on; the "new post" panel in Discourse is obstructed by the keyboard; FastMail alert box buttons don't work, and many other such annoyances. It can be used as a main browser but it doe…

> obstructed by the keyboard You seem to be talking about the mobile version?

Yes I should have mentioned it's the mobile version

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#693

Post by ideamotor »

Silhouette wrote: post #657
Chabsff wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. There are a plethora of browsers out there, and no one can be expected to test against all of them. As long as we go for a "government conforming to industry" mentality, then the cutoff has to be somewhere, and if Firefox doesn't make that cutoff, then that's all there is to it. No browser deserves special treatment here. And this is as true for Firefox as it is for Lynx.

A long time ago we had something called "standards" that were intended to solve this problem. The idea was that developers of different browsers would get together in a neutral forum and agree common ground that everyone would support. That way developers could reliably build upon that common ground and expect their products to operate correctly in any browser. It was an excellent idea that heralded the success of th…

This, but for so many issues. Innovation is being stifled by platform monopolies. Standards can too but right now that’s not the primary cause. It’s a balance.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#694

Post by fsflover »

fabrice_d wrote: post #595
rchaud wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tried with FirefoxOS almost a decade ago but couldn't find any hardware partners.

FirefoxOS was not stopped by Mozilla leadership due to a lack of hardware partners. The distribution model - mostly through carriers - failed because a key app was not available (WhatsApp) which caused a chicken and egg situation: no sales because no app, no official app because not enough users.

Somehow this chicken-egg problem isn't stopping GNU/Linux phones.

Sent from my Librem 5.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#695

Post by paulryanrogers »

rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #411
ako wrote: post #380

What should Firefox do for you to select it as your default browser? (It’s my default browser, I’m pretty happy with it, also use the pocket functionality quite bit)

Come up with their own privacy-focused computer and mobile OS, and mobile devices, really. I don’t think that browsers can survive as standalone software anymore. We’ve come to a point where default browsers are so tightly integrated with smartphone or computer OSes that a browser by itself offers too little value without integration. It’s going to be expensive, but they can compete with Linux distros that try to do…

Or regulate a browser ballot. It's worked before.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#696

Post by mvdtnz »

robin_reala wrote: post #28

It’s not on the brink, it’s that Firefox shims GA[1] with Enhanced Tracking Protection, which is on by default.[2] analytics.usa.gov uses GA. So you really can’t rely on usage figures that don’t represent the truth of your situation. [1] https://github.com/mozilla/gecko-dev/blob/413b88689f3ca2a30b... [2] https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-now-ava...

Please define your acronyms.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#697

Post by beiller »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #620
whakim wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always see comments like this on HN, and I struggle to understand why. Firefox is plenty fast. Its interface is extremely similar to most of its competitors. It works well. What special sauce do you expect Mozilla to implement that'll suddenly change their fortunes? It's a browser, after all. And why do you think that such features aren't being implemented due to lack of resources or muddled priorities - surely Moz…

I have two PWAs that I use all the time and Firefox doesn't appear to support PWAs. There is a third party extension for it but I'm generally reluctant to install browser extensions because I worry about security.

I believe it supports pwas fully. Click ... Menu and click "add to home screen"

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#698

Post by aendruk »

spacechild1 wrote: post #616
hs86 wrote: post #117

I switched over after the Manifest v3 debacle, and after a couple of months, I wonder if the implications of using a browser with a lower market share are overblown. I haven't encountered any site that misbehaves, and the only missing feature so far is within the Google Drive web app because it uses a Chrome-only extension [1]. Maybe the ongoing standardization of the web shows its effects here, and using a standard-…

Same for me! I have been always using Firefox as my main browser for at least 15 years and never had any problems. Actually, I don't really understand why so many tech-savvy people continue to use Chrome... Just switch to Firefox, for foxs sake!

Over the last year or so various websites have mysteriously walled me off with 403s and 5xxs only when I use Firefox. I suspect that merely using a less popular browser is tripping some attempted security measure.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#699

Post by the_third_wave »

kemotep wrote: post #684
the_third_wave wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the downvoters: tell us what you think instead of trying to get an opinion contrary to your own greyed out. Is it just that I mention undesirable person #1 which caught your ire, is it that you do not think a fork would be a good idea, is it because you do not agree that Mozilla has been abused by Baker? Discuss, do not just click that down-vote button.

People are probably turned off to the comment because of all the complaining about “identity politics”. There also exists several forks of Firefox already. Suggesting the nth idealogical fork that will be funded out of the kindness of a billionaire’s heart doesn’t sound productive. Why not donate to Librewolf? Why must Musk actually have any involvement besides funding?

The "complaining about identity politics" is part of the core reason for creating a non-politicised fork which can take over where Firefox left at a ~32% market share, i.e. it can attempt to regain part of the market lost to Chrome and its many descendants. The reason for Musk to get involved (apart from funding) is to make sure the project remains politically neutral as that would be one of selling points when compared to the rest of the field. It would mean that this fork - let's call it Techiya, Hebrew for 'resurrection' and thus a fitting name for this project - explicitly stays out of the political quagmire which has swallowed Mozilla and deeply affects the way companies like Google (Chrome), Microsoft (Edge) and Apple (Safari) (re)act. It would focus on creating a competitive browser which can host a fully functional content blocker, which does not send oodles of tracking information to some mothership, which does not waste time promoting things like "racial justice" [1] but focuses on its core task of developing a solid alternative to the current Blink/Webkit-based almost-monoculture. Leave the politicking to others, not everything needs to be politicised.

Librewolf and Palemoon and Waterfox and the Tor Browser and the other Firefox forks do not have enough impact to survive by themselves without Firefox itself. They are projects focused on specific aspects - privacy, XPCOM/XUL extensions, plugins etc. If Firefox goes down so do these projects - maybe apart from Palemoon but that is only because that project already depends on a lot of older code which is no longer supported by Mozilla to enable it to run pre-Quantum extensions and plugins. What I'm philosophising about is a project which can take over where Mozilla left off, focused on creating and maintaining a viable alternative to the current Blink/WebKit hegemony and intent on gaining a sizeable market share.

[1 https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/leadership/mozilla-racia...

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#700

Post by Silhouette »

IshKebab wrote: post #676
Silhouette wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A long time ago we had something called "standards" that were intended to solve this problem. The idea was that developers of different browsers would get together in a neutral forum and agree common ground that everyone would support. That way developers could reliably build upon that common ground and expect their products to operate correctly in any browser. It was an excellent idea that heralded the success of th…

Nonsense. Only completely trivial standards work without testing actually implementations against each other. How do you think WiFi devices work together? Is it because WiFi is a standard? Not really - it's because WiFi vendors all test their chips against other WiFi chips on the market.

I've been the person doing that testing. Checking interoperability with a range of other devices is one way you can look for problems but when it comes to signing things off the standard is the final word. Do you know what happens to the devices that don't comply with statutory radio transmission standards? They don't get sold.

Typically the cost of fixing the problem and going through the whole certification process again from the start is significant. There are some direct financial costs but mostly the damage is increased time to market. That's a great incentive for the maker to get their act together and comply with the standards like everyone else as quickly as possible. If you screw up too many times your product might be obsolete before you're ever allowed to sell it.

Post reply on HN