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Firefox on the brink?

brycewray.com

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Re: Firefox on the brink?

#651

Post by layer8 »

laurent123456 wrote: post #586
rumdz wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I'm not a Firefox fanboy. It has literally run better for me than Chrome for a few years now.

I'm always surprised to read claims that Firefox is the same or better than Chrome. I switched to Firefox recently and many sites don't quite work: for example the pull request popup menu on GitHub appears off screen so can't be clicked on; the "new post" panel in Discourse is obstructed by the keyboard; FastMail alert box buttons don't work, and many other such annoyances. It can be used as a main browser but it doe…

> obstructed by the keyboard

You seem to be talking about the mobile version?

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#652

Post by dreamcompiler »

throw10920 wrote: post #57
robin_reala wrote: post #28

It’s not on the brink, it’s that Firefox shims GA[1] with Enhanced Tracking Protection, which is on by default.[2] analytics.usa.gov uses GA. So you really can’t rely on usage figures that don’t represent the truth of your situation. [1] https://github.com/mozilla/gecko-dev/blob/413b88689f3ca2a30b... [2] https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-now-ava...

The US government's page it uses to track web browser usage uses an analytics engine made by a company that makes its own web browser? That sounds like a pretty big issue!

It's also a company the US government is presently suing for antitrust violations. That seems like an issue too.

https://www.npr.org/2023/09/12/1198558372/doj-google-monopol...

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#653

Post by Ikatza »

hs86 wrote: post #117

I switched over after the Manifest v3 debacle, and after a couple of months, I wonder if the implications of using a browser with a lower market share are overblown. I haven't encountered any site that misbehaves, and the only missing feature so far is within the Google Drive web app because it uses a Chrome-only extension [1]. Maybe the ongoing standardization of the web shows its effects here, and using a standard-…

For one, HN misbehaves pretty badly on mobile.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#655

Post by MadWombat »

whakim wrote: post #475
jdlyga wrote: post #90

Firefox needs to focus all their effort on making a good web browser first . If the browser is slow, has a clunky interface, or lags behind on features, then people won't use it. Mozilla focus way too much of their attention on privacy and non-browser related projects. Look at how much attention that The Browser Company has gotten for their Arc browser on Mac. Their primary focus is great UI and making an excellent b…

I always see comments like this on HN, and I struggle to understand why. Firefox is plenty fast. Its interface is extremely similar to most of its competitors. It works well. What special sauce do you expect Mozilla to implement that'll suddenly change their fortunes? It's a browser, after all. And why do you think that such features aren't being implemented due to lack of resources or muddled priorities - surely Moz…

"What special sauce do you expect Mozilla to implement that'll suddenly change their fortunes?"

XUL extensions maybe? The reason I gave up on Firefox after literally decades of using it was because they kept removing features I was actively using without fixing any of the problems. What's the point of using a niche browser if it is exactly like the non-niche browser, but with more compatibility issues?

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#656

Post by vetinari »

fabrice_d wrote: post #595
rchaud wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tried with FirefoxOS almost a decade ago but couldn't find any hardware partners.

FirefoxOS was not stopped by Mozilla leadership due to a lack of hardware partners. The distribution model - mostly through carriers - failed because a key app was not available (WhatsApp) which caused a chicken and egg situation: no sales because no app, no official app because not enough users.

At the time, I had a FirefoxOS device made by ZTE in my hands.

It was so slow, it was unusable; even the first Android devices running on underpowered hardware were speed champions in comparison. Looking for an Whatsapp launcher was beyond the patience of even dedicated fans.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#657

Post by Silhouette »

Chabsff wrote: post #639
insanitybit wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's clearly not about what is needed, it's about what is tested . And spending resources on a browser that appears to have 2% of the market is not going to be a high priority.

Exactly. There are a plethora of browsers out there, and no one can be expected to test against all of them. As long as we go for a "government conforming to industry" mentality, then the cutoff has to be somewhere, and if Firefox doesn't make that cutoff, then that's all there is to it. No browser deserves special treatment here. And this is as true for Firefox as it is for Lynx.

A long time ago we had something called "standards" that were intended to solve this problem. The idea was that developers of different browsers would get together in a neutral forum and agree common ground that everyone would support. That way developers could reliably build upon that common ground and expect their products to operate correctly in any browser. It was an excellent idea that heralded the success of the modern WWW.

Naturally this enforced competition wasn't in Google's interests as its browser became dominant and it adopted the infamous Microsoft strategy to deal with the threat. Apparently we're fast approaching the extinguish phase.

The correct solution to this is for influential public bodies not to insist upon supporting any specific browser or browsers but instead to once again support open web standards and therefore free access to their information and services for all.

This is almost certainly in their own interests anyway. Google has a nasty habit of suddenly killing off its non-standardised extensions. Relying on functionality that other browsers don't necessarily support as well seems unwise.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#658

Post by EchoReflection »

seems like if FF leadership is smart they will figure out some way to tweak their product so that it is compliant or they will start spending money on advertising. I have never once in my entire life (I'm 36) seen an ad for FF. Personally I like FF but find the browser to be TOO tight in terms of things like needing 2FA to sync. My number one browser is Vivaldi, which is Chromium-based (obviously) but does have enhanced tracking protection.

https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-powerful-privacy-settings/

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#659

Post by riversflow »

Chabsff wrote: post #639
insanitybit wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's clearly not about what is needed, it's about what is tested . And spending resources on a browser that appears to have 2% of the market is not going to be a high priority.

Exactly. There are a plethora of browsers out there, and no one can be expected to test against all of them. As long as we go for a "government conforming to industry" mentality, then the cutoff has to be somewhere, and if Firefox doesn't make that cutoff, then that's all there is to it. No browser deserves special treatment here. And this is as true for Firefox as it is for Lynx.

> No browser deserves special treatment here.

Completely disagree. Privacy is a 4th ammendment right, so the government has a duty to support privacy first browsers. How am I "secure in my ... papers and effects" if I must use a privacy destroying browser to interact with the Government? If anything, chrome support is what should be questionable.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#660

Post by mozTA »

robin_reala wrote: post #28

It’s not on the brink, it’s that Firefox shims GA[1] with Enhanced Tracking Protection, which is on by default.[2] analytics.usa.gov uses GA. So you really can’t rely on usage figures that don’t represent the truth of your situation. [1] https://github.com/mozilla/gecko-dev/blob/413b88689f3ca2a30b... [2] https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-now-ava...

Mozilla employee here.

Truth of the situation is probably worse. We are losing users faster than anticipated.

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