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Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

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Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#481

Post by xinayder »

jchw wrote: post #75
xinayder wrote: post #45

From their blogpost: https://blog.beeper.com/p/beeper-cloud-and-product-roadmap > Everything changed in August when a security researcher reverse engineered the iMessage protocol. > At a high level, here’s our product plan for the near future (in very rough order, and very subject to change): > Add support for SMS, WhatsApp and Signal into Beeper Mini, using the same end-to-end encrypted client-side connection archit…

Yeah Apple won't like this or ever officially approve of it, but you make it sound like you'd call the police if you saw someone using an unofficial AIM client. I think the dramatics can be chilled. The ToS is dumb and not worth the virtual paper its written on. If Beeper can keep up with the cat-and-mouse game, this is no different than Trillian or GAIM/Pidgin/Bitlbee/libpurple or aMSN or Miranda IM or Gtkcord4 and…

When there's money involved, the results are way more dramatic.

If Beeper was free, sure, they wouldn't bother that much.

But Beeper relies on this business model. Apple and co wont let this slip.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#482

Post by chatmasta »

stefan_ wrote: post #335
dadoum wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not the developer but I also looked at that binary to help the project at some point. It's taken straight from OS X 10.8 (more precisely from an Update Combo on their download portal). It's calling NACInit, NACKeyEstablishment and NACSign functions from it (which have no entry points but with reverse engineering the offsets have been figured out). They are themselves relying on OS X system functions to get devic…

That seems like a problem. Emulating the protocol is okayish-to-gray but having the binary there will just be a straight DMCA. Wonder what the actual app is doing since this is just the PoC.

I don't think the finer legal points matter too much. If Apple wants to sue them, they'll sue them, regardless of legal merit. And I suspect Beeper is betting they can make their case from a more philosophical angle, such that it's irrelevant what grounds Apple cites when suing them. Beeper will fight it either way.

I'm an Apple user who has no need for this app. But I really appreciate that Beeper has the balls to reverse engineer the protocol and build a business around it while fully expecting a lawsuit. That's some old school hacker shit and I'm here for it.

Apple tried and failed to sue Corellium for emulating their hardware, and now Corellium has a viable business around it. I don't see why Beeper should fare any differently. They just need to be prepared for a fight, both legally (lawsuits) and technically (ongoing game of cat-and-mouse).

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#484

Post by xinayder »

xsrMcVdvV3 wrote: post #142
ysofunny wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but now explain this in "Legaleeze" to Apple, to Nintendo, etc....

Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections (a)(2) and (b), a person may develop and employ technological means to circumvent a technological measure, or to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure, in order to enable the identification and analysis under paragraph (1), or for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, if such means ar…

You do know DMCA is not the only law they can refer to to sue freeloaders, right?

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#485

Post by altintx »

chatmasta wrote: post #473
joshstrange wrote: post #454

Beeper is a really cool idea by some cool people (people behind the Pebble smartwatch) but I've resisted using it for fear of bans. I don't want my Slack/Discord/Instagram/AppleId/etc to get banned for using something not allowed under the terms of service. How are people who use Beeper dealing with this? Are you just using dummy/test accounts that you don't care about or are you just rolling the dice. I would like t…

If you have an Apple account, why are you even using Beeper? I guess it might have some advantages for convenience (multiplexing chat apps), but is that the main selling point right now? I'd imagine the target market is Android users who want to talk to people on Apple Messages. So they can just create a new Apple account, right? (Isn't that kinda hard anyway, though? You need to tie it to billing, etc.) And if that…

I sit in front of my work laptop which is signed into my work apple account. My iPhone is signed into my personal Apple account. I cannot iMessage from the keyboard because they won't play together. I've been using Cloud Beeper since early summer, and it makes the two apple systems play nice together. I also have a Windows machine signed in to it, but that's a nice to have.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#486

Post by xinayder »

martin1975 wrote: post #223
hanniabu wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Signal is the same, they C&D every fork that becomes popular, the only official clients are the CLI and the ones they release This always rubbed me the wrong way and made it seem like it's an NSA operation

The source to Signal is open to analysis if you doubt its security. I suspect they C&D forks because they don't follow coding/security practices as upstream does, and it would be too hard to ensure they would if they just let anyone fork it.

Not really. Moxie just said "we pay for the infrastructure so it's unfair that you get to use the servers we pay for".

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#487

Post by drewtato »

SpencerOMG wrote: post #424

I remember Nothing tech did something similar-ish not too long ago, but I can't find their announcement of it. But then I stumbled upon a video talking about privacy concerns[0]. What's the difference between what they did and what Beeper is doing? Sounds cool though, impressive work! (also, "hacker"-news needs to be more embracing of their name lol) [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMdj8RyMb64

Nothing's thing was a branded version of Sunbird https://www.sunbirdapp.com/ which is technically similar to the iMessage part of Beeper Cloud. It is essentially a way for you to login with your Apple ID on a Mac Mini in a server farm, and then interact with its desktop iMessage client from an Android app.

This was done because Apple obfuscates how its notification system works, so the cheapest short-term solution is to just use real Apple hardware.

When Nothing released it, it was found to have many flaws, which is where that video comes in. Nothing unreleased it and hasn't followed up since.

Beeper Mini uses the long-term solution of reverse engineering Apple's notification system so that it can run independently of an Apple device.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#488

Post by [deleted] »

oceanplexian wrote: post #315
saagarjha wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This didn’t really say much. Apple definitely knows about Hackintosh users, they mostly just don’t care. The question is whether they will actually do something if made to care.

This is too high profile. Apple is absolutely, 100% going to kill this and it’s gonna screw this over for those of us who leverage iMessage in Hackintosh environments.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#489

Post by superduty »

bogwog wrote: post #296

This seems like it won't last, but it's AWESOME and I really hope you survive Apple's inevitable attempts to kill this. A universal chat application would be amazing, and will maybe help bring attention to the value of standards and interoperability (hopefully by governments/regulators).

What is currently not interoperable between the majors mobile OS makers?

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#490

Post by [deleted] »

afavour wrote: post #324
chipgap98 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw an article on the topic where the reporter spoke with Beeper's CEO, Eric Migicovsky. He seems to believe that blocking Beeper might cause problems for legitimate Apple user's. Obviously that outcome is something he wants, but I still think its interesting. [0]: https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/5/23987817/beeper-mini-imes...

That would make sense: because Apple have deeply coupled iMessage to the OS they can’t simply roll out a new version of the app with protocol changes that would block Beeper, they’d have to release entire OS updates. No matter the method it would be a scorched earth approach. I suspect the number of people actually using Beeper will be far below a rounding error for Apple.

[deleted]
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