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Firefox on the brink?

brycewray.com

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Re: Firefox on the brink?

#601

Post by nextaccountic »

Semaphor wrote: post #312
robin_reala wrote: post #28

It’s not on the brink, it’s that Firefox shims GA[1] with Enhanced Tracking Protection, which is on by default.[2] analytics.usa.gov uses GA. So you really can’t rely on usage figures that don’t represent the truth of your situation. [1] https://github.com/mozilla/gecko-dev/blob/413b88689f3ca2a30b... [2] https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-now-ava...

Just to add some anecdata, we have both Google Analytics (if you accept the GDPR tracking request…) and our own internal statistics based purely on useragents. Here are some percentages for November (this is Germany, generally far higher FF usage) Ours: Chrome 37.4% Firefox 24.7% Safari 21.1% Edge 7.5% Opera 2.6% GA: Chrome 39.3% Safari 31.5% Firefox 11.9% Edge 9.9% Samsung Internet 2.9% For us, GA is undercounting F…

if google analytics is undercounting firefox in a way that may make websites to drop firefox support, i suppose this is a case for antitrust?

because google is using a near monopoly on analytics to bury a competitor in another segment

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#602

Post by cwales95 »

maldev wrote: post #588
cwales95 wrote: post #92

Something has to change. Firefox is a GREAT browser. I think a lot of these things boil down to poor marketing. Things like these have to appear 'cool' and appeal to people. There has to be a reason for people to go out and actively want to download Firefox. Something akin to Apple's privacy adverts is how I'd go about it.

They've been trying that and it just pushes people away. I stopped using Firefox when Mozilla tried to score social brownie points. And the numbers seem to collaborate with shrinking and shrinking marketshare, especially after these campaigns. Since on the flip side of what you said, why would people swap from Firefox to chrome, Chrome doesn't bring anything shiny.

I agree with some of what you said about social brownie points. Advertising can be really off putting (I'm very anti-advertisement but I'm not really their target audience since I mostly use Firefox these days). However, they have to do something to get the word out. There needs to be a reason for people to care to install Firefox.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#603

Post by ndriscoll »

NegativeK wrote: post #580
ndriscoll wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What compatibility? If Firefox breaks forms, then Firefox broke forms and needs to fix it. Not your bug. If Chrome renders differently from edge because they decided the default color on .gov sites will be pink on white and all padding will be multiplied by 1.5, then that's fine. Not a bug. Chrome just decided to present a different look. If it's even possible for basic functionality to break in a way where you would…

US government websites, as they exist, are often ancient, decrepit, and poorly funded. This will make them all worse and it will cost more. It will get in the way of people actually trying to interact with the government, and the leaders in the government will crap all over the project due to the angry calls they'll get from their constituents. If we try to stick to pure ideals without any consideration for reality,…

They're not decrepit; they're unfashionable. Programs and websites that were somewhat decently written 20 years ago should and pretty much do run exactly the same today as they did then. It's not until "web 2.0" and SaaS that you find things that stop working after a few years/months.

That's exactly what you need for "poorly funded" sites, and I don't see why a site that's meant to be functional needs a Hollywood budget.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#604

Post by jen20 »

aembleton wrote: post #503
jen20 wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy must be a tier 1 feature of a web browser. The fact the market leader goes out of their way to shit all over privacy concerns says more about their marketing pull than the quality of their browser.

That privacy prevents organisations such as USWDS from seeing that it is in use as analytics are blocked.

That means that using telemetry to determine browser market share is a flawed approach.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#605

Post by denton-scratch »

> I surely hope I’m wrong about this, but I fear I’m not.

I suspect that the remaining Firefox users are likely to be quite "sticky". If there are websites that don't work in Firefox (but work in Chrome and Safari), I haven't yet blundered into one. My guess is that those would be mainly corporate intranet sites/apps, which I don't have to deal with.

No platform deploys Firefox by default; you have to deliberately choose it. That is NOT true of Chrome or Edge. I doubt anyone has ever deliberately chosen Edge; you can only get Edge on Windows, where it's the default anyway. And the only people I know that have deliberately chosen Chrome over the OS default are developers.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#606

Post by cwales95 »

laurent123456 wrote: post #586
rumdz wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I'm not a Firefox fanboy. It has literally run better for me than Chrome for a few years now.

I'm always surprised to read claims that Firefox is the same or better than Chrome. I switched to Firefox recently and many sites don't quite work: for example the pull request popup menu on GitHub appears off screen so can't be clicked on; the "new post" panel in Discourse is obstructed by the keyboard; FastMail alert box buttons don't work, and many other such annoyances. It can be used as a main browser but it doe…

I use GitHub frequently and have never came across that issue; can't speak for the other sites though. If you're sure it's not the website's fault I'd encourage you to submit feedback: https://webcompat.com/issues/new

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#607

Post by nkg »

sreejithr wrote: post #567

Firefox is the only browser that has reliable ad-blocking. Chrome allows ads by default because you know, it's from Google. Edge is no better the last I used it. Websites are simply faster on Firefox. But I guess people like me are fast becoming a minority.

I'm with you!

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#608

Post by JohnBooty »

beej71 wrote: post #581
JohnBooty wrote: post #188

If you care about the web, use Firefox. It's as simple as that.

Understated but true. Or I might modify to say if you care about the web, you don't run Chrome. For us to have a nice web, we need interoperability. And for that to happen, we need multiple players implementing a single standard.

I'd say, "if you care about the web, don't use a Chromium-based browser, but also Safari does not need your help w.r.t. marketshare" so.... yeah. Use FF basically.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#609

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

preinheimer wrote: post #489
hs86 wrote: post #117

I switched over after the Manifest v3 debacle, and after a couple of months, I wonder if the implications of using a browser with a lower market share are overblown. I haven't encountered any site that misbehaves, and the only missing feature so far is within the Google Drive web app because it uses a Chrome-only extension [1]. Maybe the ongoing standardization of the web shows its effects here, and using a standard-…

Specific problems I've had as a firefox user: - I can't pay municipal license fees (Site says "Use Chrome") - I can't use the Vendor management portal for $largePopularTechCompany type company for my small business ("We support Chrome") - Xero my small business accounting software just doesn't work properly ("Use Chrome")

Some Xero products don’t work properly no matter what your browser is.

For me, Mozilla has bugs or weaknesses in Linux. YouTube chews my cpu (hardware acceleration is broken, at least for me). Tabs ‘freeze’ due to a bug in an X11 lib. Pop up bubbles (do you want to enable gps to this site type bubbles) if visible before switching workspaces appear on all workspaces but cannot be actioned and appear on top.

Mozilla as a company appears to be attempting poor monetisation models like attempting to build social networks etc. I would consider paying them a yearly fee if I thought they’d use money wisely, but at the moment executive appear more interested in vanity projects.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#610

Post by dblohm7 »

sergiotapia wrote: post #4

>Firefox peaked at 31.82% in November, 2009 — and then began its long slide in almost direct proportion to the rise of Chrome. It will be a sad day when Firefox is truly dead. But what did Mozilla expect? They spent so much time and energy on activist bullshit that doesn't really matter for THE BROWSER.

It was the explosion of mobile browsing that did it.
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