Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#251

Post by nozzlegear » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 6:44 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #150

InTheArena wrote: post #113

Its awesome to reverse engineer this... but.. At the end of the day, this product is taking money for using Apple Services with no recompense to Apple. It won't last. Apple should have added an iMessage client to Android (and charged for it) long, long, long ago, but it doesn't change the ethics problem here. (This is the downside to the "just pay for it with hardware" model people always love rather than paying subs…

The only "ethics" problem I see is a company using it's considerable weight to deliberately segregate users of different platforms, resulting in discrimination and bullying. I understand a lot of people here may not understand this, on account of not being a teenager or young adult, but it is a very real phenomenon.

I think the ethics problem probably lies on the shoulders of the bullies, not on Apple.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#252

Post by walteweiss » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 6:44 PM UTC

>No Apple ID is required

How are you going to send the messages? Whom from, a phone number?

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#253

Post by freedomben » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 6:44 PM UTC

itslennysfault wrote: post #173

First... I want to say this is awesome and really really cool. I'm an android user and honestly don't care about blue bubble or iMessage features, but I know A LOT of people care a lot about it, and its really cool to see a solution that doesn't involve passing Apple credentials to some 3rd party service. That said... I will be SHOCKED if Apple doesn't prevent this in some way in short order. Could be through legal a…

Agreed, and it needn't ever address Beeper directly. Simply fixing the "security hole" that allows invalid devices to register would put a knife in Beeper's back and needn't ever be acknowledged by Big Gray

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#254

Post by freedomben » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 6:45 PM UTC

walteweiss wrote: post #252

>No Apple ID is required How are you going to send the messages? Whom from, a phone number?

Third paragraph:

> With Beeper Mini, your Android phone number is registered on iMessage

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#255

Post by elashri » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 6:46 PM UTC

addandsubtract wrote: post #229

olliej wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RCS isn't encrypted, doesn't work without phones, doesn't have a single identity across multiple devices, etc so it's not going to replace iMessage.

If only there was an encrypted chat service, that works on multiple devices, has a single identity across all of them, etc. Oh well, guess we'll all have to buy iPhones to use iMessage.

There is matrix.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#256

Post by semi-extrinsic » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 6:46 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #240

chdefrene wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snazzy Labs did an overview video [1] about this implementation. According to them, reusing a specific hardware token is such s common practice that Apple would need to "redesign their entire authentication and delivery strategy" to mitigate this problem. I guess we'll see how this statement holds up in the coming weeks/months. [1] https://youtu.be/S24TDRxEna4?t=5m38s

We're talking about a company that changes CPU architectures for their ecosystem every few years, completely seamlessly. If redesigning their entire authentication and delivery strategy is what it will take to mitigate this problem, Apple will do it.

What problem? Increased compatibility?

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#257

Post by impish9208 » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 6:47 PM UTC

Whenever this issue of iMessage crops up on HN, I’ve come to expect the usual points from both sides. However, the one thing that’s never addressed is the “why” of it all. For a group that ostensibly values openness and interoperability, why spend so much effort and energy to climb into a walled garden?

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#258

Post by freedomben » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 6:48 PM UTC

Zr40 wrote: post #225

matsemann wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with graceful fallback Have you ever tried to stop having an Apple device? Hopefully better now, but a few years ago there was no way to unlink iMessage. So say good bye to all your Apple friends, as them texting you goes to the Apple cloud and not your new phone.

> a few years ago there was no way to unlink iMessage Deregistration[1] has been supported since November 2014. [1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203042

Maybe that would be obvious to the average Apple user, but as a non-Apple user, it would never occur to me that I'd have to explicitly de-register my phone number with Apple after activating a new phone.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#259

Post by CaptainFever » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 6:48 PM UTC

InTheArena wrote: post #113

Its awesome to reverse engineer this... but.. At the end of the day, this product is taking money for using Apple Services with no recompense to Apple. It won't last. Apple should have added an iMessage client to Android (and charged for it) long, long, long ago, but it doesn't change the ethics problem here. (This is the downside to the "just pay for it with hardware" model people always love rather than paying subs…

There's probably indeed a pragmatic issue with the service not lasting, but it is not an ethics problem. If anything, it's unethical for Apple to be so damn proprietary.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#260

Post by schmichael » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 6:49 PM UTC

nullwarp wrote: post #203

standardUser wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only "ethics" problem I see is a company using it's considerable weight to deliberately segregate users of different platforms, resulting in discrimination and bullying. I understand a lot of people here may not understand this, on account of not being a teenager or young adult, but it is a very real phenomenon.

Not even young at this point. I overheard two grown men talking about how much they hate people with green bubbles and purposely skip inviting them into group chats because of it.

I have been a grown man on both sides of that conversation: left out of group chats due to being a green bubble, and now tacitly approving of not including green bubbles in otherwise pristine-seas-of-blue chats.

It's less about the background color and more about the endless series of interoperability paper cuts that exist with green bubbles. Will my reaction emoji come through as intended? Will my shared media get downsampled to feature phone quality? Will referencing the person's name in chat work the same? etc etc etc.

Interop is always a pain, but the sooner Apple can be forced into making any concessions the better.

It would help if Google wasn't a complete joke in the messaging space though. As much as I want iMessage interop with Android users, I have no faith or trust in any Google-based messaging app or initiative. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me dozens of times ... well I'd be an idiot to trust Google messaging again.

The fact that a huge number of perfectly good third party chat apps exist and yet most Apple users prefer iMessage is a huge testament to iMessage just being a really well made product. I wouldn't put up with the obnoxious interop and lockin issues if it weren't!