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Working more than 55 hours a week kills 750k people a year worldwide

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Re: Working more than 55 hours a week kills 750k people a year worldwide

#31

Post by rafaelmn »

sonicanatidae wrote: post #22

I would argue against this in the IT industry, but I'm a SysAdmin and we're not known for common sense when it comes to working hours. Lots of other sense, sure, but this? Not so much. In seriousness, I would like to see less of this. After working through most of my career this way, I would change it, if I did it over. To new SysAdmins or just hard-headed senior admins like me: It will still be there tomorrow.

Haha if there's one role I steer clear then it's anything OPs/admin related - no shortage of ass clenching situations where your job/product/the entire company might not be there tomorrow.

Re: Working more than 55 hours a week kills 750k people a year worldwide

#32

Post by tanjtanjtanj »

mrweasel wrote: post #10
chollida1 wrote: post #2

I think this is more about manual labour but I'll take the opposite side when it comes to white collar work that working more hours can be better early on in your career. When I was just out of school and in my early 20s I worked as much as I could, I probably did close to 12 hours days in my 20s. I think I probably averaged an all nighter a month for a few years and worked at least one day on weekends and I loved ev…

While I have no reason to doubt your experience, please note that you're probably an outlier. One of the things I strongly believe that Extreme Programming got right is the max 40 hour work week. Some can easily do more than 40 hours and still function, some can do less but 40 hours seems like a happy average. Expecting more is unreasonable and won't lead to more productivity for most. That's not to say that those wh…

I'm not calling into doubt the above poster's work estimates, there are people that work those hours, but I have found that it is extremely, extremely rare.

Across all of the teams I have worked with I have found that if you ask someone how many hours a week they work they will typically say 40+, usually closer to 50. If you ask someone how much they worked the previous week, every week, they will usually say 30-35, or even lower.

I also don't think the majority of them were lying or trying to cover up their work habits, I think they work 50 hours a week the same way someone might see themselves as smart, funny, a good person, or any other nebulous concept. They are a 50, 60, 70 hour per week person.

Also, all but one person who worked extended hours as the above poster claims has been of the "super chicken" type. Typically working for visibility and not to advance their team. I see they posted about their individual accolades and accomplishments but I have no way of knowing if their teams goals were met, if they lifted the performance of the rest of their team or anything else. Many an extreme outlier in performance can be found who has never shipped. Again, not specifically talking about the above poster.

Re: Working more than 55 hours a week kills 750k people a year worldwide

#34

Post by jonas21 »

giantg2 wrote: post #6
chollida1 wrote: post #2

I think this is more about manual labour but I'll take the opposite side when it comes to white collar work that working more hours can be better early on in your career. When I was just out of school and in my early 20s I worked as much as I could, I probably did close to 12 hours days in my 20s. I think I probably averaged an all nighter a month for a few years and worked at least one day on weekends and I loved ev…

You had no burnout or resentment because you had an enjoyable working environment with what sound like just rewards and you were able to learn valuable things. That's pretty rare in my experience. My anecdotal evidence is the opposite. I worked extra hours and volunteered for a long time. I took responsibility for things nobody else wanted. My raises and bonuses were trivial. I had one promotion early on from entry l…

Here's the thing: working hard doesn't just benefit your employer. It also benefits you because you'll learn new skills rapidly.

If your employer doesn't recognize the value you're adding, don't just sit around hoping for a raise someday. Use your new skills to find one who will. At least in my experience (as an engineer in the US), this is relatively easy and is considered a normal thing to do in one's career.

Re: Working more than 55 hours a week kills 750k people a year worldwide

#35

Post by tanjtanjtanj »

andy99 wrote: post #29

[flagged]

I don't see how that is the divide here.

You could have a command economy work people into the ground and you can have a market economy work people into the ground. The same holds true for limiting working hours.

Re: Working more than 55 hours a week kills 750k people a year worldwide

#36

Post by ponector »

giantg2 wrote: post #6
chollida1 wrote: post #2

I think this is more about manual labour but I'll take the opposite side when it comes to white collar work that working more hours can be better early on in your career. When I was just out of school and in my early 20s I worked as much as I could, I probably did close to 12 hours days in my 20s. I think I probably averaged an all nighter a month for a few years and worked at least one day on weekends and I loved ev…

You had no burnout or resentment because you had an enjoyable working environment with what sound like just rewards and you were able to learn valuable things. That's pretty rare in my experience. My anecdotal evidence is the opposite. I worked extra hours and volunteered for a long time. I took responsibility for things nobody else wanted. My raises and bonuses were trivial. I had one promotion early on from entry l…

Sounds like you stayed to long with one company. Learn new role, work for few months and jump to another company to the new role, new level and new salary.

Re: Working more than 55 hours a week kills 750k people a year worldwide

#37

Post by DetroitThrow »

giantg2 wrote: post #3

How does the long work day cause the death? Is it fatigue related accidents or something else?

Exhausting manual labor in hot environments can just cause you to have a heart attack, especially at an older age. I know a good handful of men who were general laborers who died from heart attacks who didn't have the luxury of slowing down in their 40s, simply because they just pushed themselves too hard for too long.

I knew a single mother in her early 30s who died from a heart attack who simply worked every hour she could, and she wasn't even doing what most would consider "manual labor".

Re: Working more than 55 hours a week kills 750k people a year worldwide

#38

Post by sonicanatidae »

rafaelmn wrote: post #31
sonicanatidae wrote: post #22

I would argue against this in the IT industry, but I'm a SysAdmin and we're not known for common sense when it comes to working hours. Lots of other sense, sure, but this? Not so much. In seriousness, I would like to see less of this. After working through most of my career this way, I would change it, if I did it over. To new SysAdmins or just hard-headed senior admins like me: It will still be there tomorrow.

Haha if there's one role I steer clear then it's anything OPs/admin related - no shortage of ass clenching situations where your job/product/the entire company might not be there tomorrow.

We mitigate this by being prepared. We keep things running well, with lots of likely needless PM. The problem is, you never know what PM is needless until the need arises.

We also usually have plans for getting things up and running again quickly, because revenue stops when the info doesn't flow.

But, even with all of that, we still pucker sometimes and develop weird habits.

One of mine is not looking at a server booting, after a serious repair with a 50/50 shot of working. Somehow, in my mind, the chances of it working are improved based on whether I'm looking at it or not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I ain't changing anything either. I've had some systems that I managed to literally raise from the dead and they booted, in part, because I wasn't looking at the screen during boot. I will accept no other explanation for the results.

Re: Working more than 55 hours a week kills 750k people a year worldwide

#39

Post by TheGRS »

chollida1 wrote: post #2

I think this is more about manual labour but I'll take the opposite side when it comes to white collar work that working more hours can be better early on in your career. When I was just out of school and in my early 20s I worked as much as I could, I probably did close to 12 hours days in my 20s. I think I probably averaged an all nighter a month for a few years and worked at least one day on weekends and I loved ev…

Survivorship bias though, not everyone has great coaches in their life or people who see their potential. You got dealt a good hand and played it well, and that's great, but not everyone is so lucky.

Working 12 hour days I would not recommend to anyone. Go out and play.

Re: Working more than 55 hours a week kills 750k people a year worldwide

#40

Post by fakedang »

chollida1 wrote: post #2

I think this is more about manual labour but I'll take the opposite side when it comes to white collar work that working more hours can be better early on in your career. When I was just out of school and in my early 20s I worked as much as I could, I probably did close to 12 hours days in my 20s. I think I probably averaged an all nighter a month for a few years and worked at least one day on weekends and I loved ev…

Let me challenge the findings of that scientific study with my highly specific anecdote which portrays me in good light.
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