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Firefox on the brink?

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Re: Firefox on the brink?

#111

Post by lxgr »

dartos wrote: post #29
lxgr wrote: post #6

> I am personally unaware of any serious reason to believe that Firefox’s numbers will improve soon. Hopefully the DMA can help? I’m not using Firefox on iOS mainly due to a lack of extension support.

I don’t think there is one. Chrome got big bc it was radically different than IE and Firefox jumped on the lightweight trend far too late.

I’m pretty sure the billions of marketing budget (for a while there was a Chrome billboard on every other bus stop in my city), aggressively installing it as part of Windows freeware etc. has at least as much to do with its popularity.

Maybe Chrome got the first 10% of its user base on its merits (that’s how I installed it at least); the next 30% definitely include a lot of people that don’t know what a browser is and got it via some other deal.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#112

Post by toss1 »

robin_reala wrote: post #28

It’s not on the brink, it’s that Firefox shims GA[1] with Enhanced Tracking Protection, which is on by default.[2] analytics.usa.gov uses GA. So you really can’t rely on usage figures that don’t represent the truth of your situation. [1] https://github.com/mozilla/gecko-dev/blob/413b88689f3ca2a30b... [2] https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-now-ava...

If this is the case, it seems that they need to recode the Enhanced Tracking Protection for GA to ensure that they get flagged as FFox.

Might also be useful to have a plug-in to make a daily 'ping'/check-in from FFox to any govt sites used by their users. E.g., I use USPS and SBA/SBIR sites, but only occasionally or monthly, but if most FFox users who did so got logged more like daily instead of ~fortnightly or ~monthly, it'd improve the numbers. (Obviously, also must be done carefully so as to not get wholesale discounted).

The cascade effect of the US Govt abandoning support would be catastrophic, likely terminal, which would be bad for everyone.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#113

Post by Timshel »

jjoonathan wrote: post #49
nequo wrote: post #3

I want Firefox to not be on the brink. I have had no problems with it on Linux over the last few years since I switched from Chrome. I do not wish to touch Chrome with a ten-foot pole.

Google finally beat my hands with a stick firmly enough to get me off Firefox. It was youtube. Not the ads -- I pay for premium -- but the fact that on FF they added an artificial 5s page load delay on firefox plus a bug has lingered for months where it always loads the last video, so you have to load every video twice. 12s/video is too much delay. Ah well, it was good while it lasted.

Sad when I had the 5s issue on FF I switched to Freetube.

No surprise Google is doing those tactics if people react like you :( ...

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#114

Post by robin_reala »

Chabsff wrote: post #69
robin_reala wrote: post #28

It’s not on the brink, it’s that Firefox shims GA[1] with Enhanced Tracking Protection, which is on by default.[2] analytics.usa.gov uses GA. So you really can’t rely on usage figures that don’t represent the truth of your situation. [1] https://github.com/mozilla/gecko-dev/blob/413b88689f3ca2a30b... [2] https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-now-ava...

Per the article, this is irrelevant. The case being made is that the figure seen by the government falling under 2%, which it is getting close to, will trigger a chain-reaction of consequences that will dramatically hurt Firefox, and it's not clear if Mozilla, the organization, could weather that. It doesn't particularly matter whether or not the figure is accurate in that context. Maybe that can be fixed easily by h…

USDS aren’t idiots, and if they haven’t realised this yet then maybe this post will focus attention. They want to support every citizen it’s reasonable to support (or at least I did when I was working for GOV.UK) and dropping support from a lack of knowledge shouldn’t be on the agenda.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#115

Post by prng2021 »

ekianjo wrote: post #52
loganmarchione wrote: post #36

Mozilla also just posted their State of Mozilla 2022 (this includes financial statements). From what I've read, it seems that expenses are up and revenue from search deals is down. https://stateof.mozilla.org/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38530382 https://www.ghacks.net/2023/12/05/mozilla-earned-close-to-60... Firefox's market share has been on the decline since 2010. https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market…

> Mozilla Corporation CEO Mitchell Baker's salary? What a ridiculous question. Obvious the chief captain on the Titanic is not responsible for the Iceberg jumping at the boat.

What a ridiculous analogy. What’s the iceberg here? Google Chrome? The originally underdog competitor they’ve known and battled for well over a decade?

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#116

Post by jeroenhd »

loganmarchione wrote: post #36

Mozilla also just posted their State of Mozilla 2022 (this includes financial statements). From what I've read, it seems that expenses are up and revenue from search deals is down. https://stateof.mozilla.org/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38530382 https://www.ghacks.net/2023/12/05/mozilla-earned-close-to-60... Firefox's market share has been on the decline since 2010. https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market…

> Genuine question. What is justifying Mozilla Corporation CEO Mitchell Baker's salary?

This question is why I don't expect Mozilla to last at its current course. I like their work, but the endless increases in CEO salary while their most important money maker is fledgling is not justifiable.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#117

Post by hs86 »

I switched over after the Manifest v3 debacle, and after a couple of months, I wonder if the implications of using a browser with a lower market share are overblown.

I haven't encountered any site that misbehaves, and the only missing feature so far is within the Google Drive web app because it uses a Chrome-only extension [1].

Maybe the ongoing standardization of the web shows its effects here, and using a standard-conform niche browser is not that bad anymore.

[1] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/application-launch...

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#118

Post by BigJ1211 »

knute wrote: post #87
munk-a wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a pretty reasonable question when the salary is so incredibly out of line with what developers make. Is the CEO singlehandedly responsible for productivity equal to that of sixty or so developers?

Not just in absolute terms, what could possibly justify a 600% increase in salary in 7 years?

I don't know, but really want to. I need this in my life.

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#119

Post by e2le »

loganmarchione wrote: post #36

Mozilla also just posted their State of Mozilla 2022 (this includes financial statements). From what I've read, it seems that expenses are up and revenue from search deals is down. https://stateof.mozilla.org/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38530382 https://www.ghacks.net/2023/12/05/mozilla-earned-close-to-60... Firefox's market share has been on the decline since 2010. https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market…

>Firefox's market share has been on the decline since 2010.

Its decline is also visible in Mozilla's own data [1], 252M users in January 2019 down to 188M in November 2023.

MAU has remained at around 188M since October, I would like to believe this is because of MV3 and the YouTube drama, but that would be naive.

Going forward I think there should be a position on the foundation [2] and corporation board [3] held by a community representative. At least then the community would have some say in the direction Mozilla is taking.

[1]: https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity

[2]: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Board

[3]: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/moco/

Re: Firefox on the brink?

#120

Post by ravenstine »

sergiotapia wrote: post #4

>Firefox peaked at 31.82% in November, 2009 — and then began its long slide in almost direct proportion to the rise of Chrome. It will be a sad day when Firefox is truly dead. But what did Mozilla expect? They spent so much time and energy on activist bullshit that doesn't really matter for THE BROWSER.

Although it would be a shame to not have a company behind it, couldn't a derivative of Firefox continue to exist with community support? It's not like Firefox is so lacking today that a lot needs to be done to compete with Chrome. If I didn't update my Firefox installation for a year, I likely wouldn't notice or care. It's a really good browser no matter what other people say, IMO. Mozilla either giving up on Firefox or kicking the bucket might even be a good thing for the Firefox codebase because it could open up opportunities for new companies to own a derivative and work on it.
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