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23andMe confirms hackers stole ancestry data on 6.9M users

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Re: 23andMe confirms hackers stole ancestry data on 6.9M users

#131

Post by CaptainZapp »

losvedir wrote: post #75
skummetmaelk wrote: post #6

This disaster is the perfect counter-argument to those always saying "why do you care so much about privacy. It doesn't affect you when I share things. You can just choose not to do it", except no, I can't choose when we're relatives and you chose to share our genome. It is so obvious that your relatives sharing their genomic data with 23andMe reveals a lot of information about you. We can only hope people will reali…

> This disaster is the perfect counter-argument to those always saying "why do you care so much about privacy. It doesn't affect you when I share things. You can just choose not to do it" While I agree it's a perfect counter-argument to that, is that what people always say? I'm not sure I've heard that argument as much as "why do you care so much about privacy?" full stop. As in, they don't really understand why anyo…

> What do you think will happen to people who had their ancestry data stolen here?

Sounds like an absolute treasure trove for a life insurance company. Or, would you disagree?

Re: 23andMe confirms hackers stole ancestry data on 6.9M users

#132

Post by ribosometronome »

knallfrosch wrote: post #76
mikewarot wrote: post #62

I never seriously considered using 23 and me. Not because of hackers, but rather what government would do with that information. I don't want to be responsible for some random relative getting charged with a crime just because I was curious about my family tree.

If that's your only concern, you need to read up on something called "Nazis." Imagine what they would do with a database of genetic information.

That Nazis could use something for truly evil purposes is hardly limited to this but, I think, the concern is. You can imagine nazis transporting Holocaust victims and soldiers by rail, because they did, but I’ve never heard anyone argue against adding more rail infrastructure because if Nazis take over they could use the rail infrastructure to enable genocide.

Re: 23andMe confirms hackers stole ancestry data on 6.9M users

#133

Post by pembrook »

gcanyon wrote: post #105

Does anyone think privacy of any real sort is maintainable going forward? Machine learning algorithms are learning to identify people just by their walk -- no face recognition required. Algorithms are moving toward being able to decipher text just by the audio of the keyboard being typed on. In short, given a gestalt of ALL public data and sufficiently advanced algorithms is there really a way for people to maintain…

Agreed, but also "privacy" is an abstraction that layers over the actual thing that people are worried about.

Any answer to why do you care about hiding this information? can all be boiled down to the fear that "[person or group] might use [private data item] to create [bad outcome] for me."

So the thing people actually care about is the risk of bad outcome, not the actual data itself.

If your theory is correct, then the focus should be on the prevention of asymmetric power imbalances in societal transactions that can even create [bad outcome].

Re: 23andMe confirms hackers stole ancestry data on 6.9M users

#134

Post by ribosometronome »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #10

I bet a lot of insurance risk adjusters will make an order for the data, optimize their models a bit, raise a few rates, and make a few new millionaires in the process. I’m being snarky but isn’t it really scary that 2% of Americans could be impacted by something like that?

That sounds like an issue with the healthcare system rather than genetic analysis, no?

Re: 23andMe confirms hackers stole ancestry data on 6.9M users

#135

Post by pbhjpbhj »

cj wrote: post #128
losvedir wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This disaster is the perfect counter-argument to those always saying "why do you care so much about privacy. It doesn't affect you when I share things. You can just choose not to do it" While I agree it's a perfect counter-argument to that, is that what people always say? I'm not sure I've heard that argument as much as "why do you care so much about privacy?" full stop. As in, they don't really understand why anyo…

I think the more common one I've heard is "Why do you care about privacy if you have nothing to hide?" In the case of 23andme, it's a perfect answer: We don't know what's hiding in our DNA and I don't know how people will use that against me in the future.

So, the reason for privacy is because the profit motive of capitalism is not sufficiently restrained as to protect citizens from being abused by corporations?

Re: 23andMe confirms hackers stole ancestry data on 6.9M users

#136

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #25
skummetmaelk wrote: post #6

This disaster is the perfect counter-argument to those always saying "why do you care so much about privacy. It doesn't affect you when I share things. You can just choose not to do it", except no, I can't choose when we're relatives and you chose to share our genome. It is so obvious that your relatives sharing their genomic data with 23andMe reveals a lot of information about you. We can only hope people will reali…

> This disaster is the perfect counter-argument to those always saying Personally speaking, I think Equihax was the better counter-argument; at least with 23andme YOU as a customer had to DECIDE to use their services and weigh the pros-cons of doing so, with Equihax I was forced into a rating system to determine my eligibility in a system that hoovers up any and all data sold to them by 3rd parties and holds all my p…

Not identity theft. Libel. There's a high probability a bank will libel people whose info Equifax leaked. They'll do that because they depend solely on the same (largely public) data compaies like Equifax collect to identify loan applicants.

Re: 23andMe confirms hackers stole ancestry data on 6.9M users

#137

Post by spacebacon »

dylan604 wrote: post #122
spacebacon wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we all shouldn’t be so Quic to create bad ideas.

Right, like the person posting an idea on an Internet forum was the first and only person to have that idea. Security through obscurity does not work. It’s much better to open up the curtains and let the sunlight in. It’s the best disinfectant. At least then everyone is working with all of the information.

Touché, although people often identify what pharmacy they prescribe to with parroting other people’s phrases.

Re: 23andMe confirms hackers stole ancestry data on 6.9M users

#138

Post by koheripbal »

nroets wrote: post #57

Isn't it time governments start to regulate passwords ? (They already regulate a lot of privacy issues like medical and financial history. Some governments even regulate the use of finger print authentication of employees) For example, any website that allows users to choose normal, easy to remember passwords should meet a long list of requirements: For example security audits, bug bounties, capital reserves to deal…

That would not have protected 23andme from this issue. Password complexity does not stop password reuse.

Re: 23andMe confirms hackers stole ancestry data on 6.9M users

#139

Post by mschuster91 »

dylan604 wrote: post #119
pfdietz wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's precious that you imagine not getting your DNA sequenced will provide any sort of shield against dystopian governments. This sort of thing looks more like a psychological crutch than an actual effective action.

That’s not what the comment was driving at. At all. It’s about how data you think is innocent can be used in a manner you never thought about nor intended for dark purposes.

I actually had intended to point out the dangers of "scope creep". Everyone is happy with a lot of pretty invasive stuff - dragnet surveillance, targeted surveillance (i.e. bugs placed in a suspect's home/car/computer/phone), DNA and fingerprint mass tests, no-knock raids - in severe crime cases such as terrorism, murder, rape, child sexual exploitation or abduction. So far, so good, and almost all Western countries have such provisions for decades that were introduced under the premise "it's only going to be used for ".

But in recent years, the scope of said "severe" crimes list has expanded massively, across the Western world, driven by both powerful industry lobbies (such as the copyright cartels) and "concerned citizens" aka authoritarians in disguise... and now you got a DNA investigation for about 4.000€ in damages of broken glass and a ticketing ATM. No matter what: this scope creep is not justifiable.

On top of that comes the risk of "what if our governments and the tools/data they and society (both in the form of individuals and companies) possess fall into the hands of authoritarians". For a long time this risk has been laughed off, but nowadays both the far-right (in Europe and the US) and the far-left (in Southern America) have seriously raised the probability of such a scenario.

Re: 23andMe confirms hackers stole ancestry data on 6.9M users

#140

Post by dfxm12 »

knallfrosch wrote: post #76
mikewarot wrote: post #62

I never seriously considered using 23 and me. Not because of hackers, but rather what government would do with that information. I don't want to be responsible for some random relative getting charged with a crime just because I was curious about my family tree.

If that's your only concern, you need to read up on something called "Nazis." Imagine what they would do with a database of genetic information.

Look at what they did without it. Godwin's Law aside, the point is, if a sufficiently powerful group is set on doing something, they'll do it. Such a group won't let "facts" or "accuracy" get in the way. Look at McCarthyism.
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