The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse • Hacker News Board

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#101

Post by nairboon » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 12:13 PM UTC

kaon123 wrote: post #70

vegardx wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It fits so well with the Norwegian stereotyping of Danish people, which is likely the reason why so many believe in it. It's also worth noting that Denmark also have quite a large oil industry. Another myth seems to be that Norway was a very poor nation before the discovery of oil. According to Jan Eivind Myhre[0], professor emeritus in history at the University of Oslo, this isn't true. Norway has been one of the we…

Fascinating. Maybe a similar mental model applies as in Switzerland. I am a foreigner living in wealthy Switzerland. They also talk about themselves as being very poor a few decades ago. Maybe it is that people really were poor back then, just not as poor as the other europeans, and this for them is hard to imagine. According to the statistics that I can find, they have been one of the wealthiest european nations for…

Switzerland has no real natural resources, no access to the sea for trade routes, it's mostly just mountains. Many many years ago, Swiss people were so dirt poor, that they had to sell their life to the highest bidder. Thus it fielded one of the largest mercenary armies in Europe. Why Switzerland is kinda rich now, is thanks to Napoleon and the congress of Vienna in 1815. There it was decided that Switzerland shall stay neutral forever. Thanks to that it didn't got destroyed in the last two wars like the rest of Europe.

So it is not like that the Swiss were not as poor as the rest of Europe back then, but everyone else got royally screwed in the wars, except the Swiss. In that time they could catch up quite a bit, because after the war, Switzerland still had fully functioning factories and manufacturing.

This also provides some context to the current discussion about 'neutrality' and why many people want to keep it. After all, this policy has proven to be very beneficial for 208 years already.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#102

Post by vegardx » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 12:52 PM UTC

DeathArrow wrote: post #78

klipt wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even better than EU, you're part of the Nordic Passport Union. Which I believe means you can naturalize as Norwegian with just two years residency there.

If you already have an EU passport, what would be the advantage?

You don't have to apply for a work or residence permit, which means that you can stay in the country indefinitely. If you're from the EEA you have to exit Norway every 3 months, unless you qualify for a work and residence permit, basically, you have to have a job.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#103

Post by 9colai » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 1:29 PM UTC

DeathArrow wrote: post #84

hilux wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment points out that Norway has done something amazing that other countries have not come close to doing. Look at what the US (I am American) has done with our wealth: highest healthcare expenditure per capita (50% more than #2), 47th in life expectancy, fifth-highest incarceration rate. What is served by reflexively trying to diminish Norway's accomplishments with a "BUT Singapore is more impressive"? Why not…

>Why not instead try to learn from Norway? Singapore as opposed to Norway doesn't have a socialist dominated political system. That means more freedom.

You really should look into Singapore freedoms before making statements like that. There are several political philosophies in the world that are more restrictive than the social-democracies of the liberal democracies in the Nordic countries.

Singapore is effectively a one-party state. It is very orderly, tidy and disciplined. https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-country-reports-on-human-... In section 1.F) you'll see that citizens have weak/no privacy protections from the government. 2.A) Free speech is not really a big thing there. 2.B) Weak rights to peaceful assembly.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#104

Post by drakonka » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 1:31 PM UTC

fxtentacle wrote: post #38

hilux wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because ... cold causes shrinkage?!

Exercise is difficult, lack of sunlight increases depression, and very few bikini beach parties ;)

I've lived in four countries in all and am currently in Sweden. It's cold here too, but so many people exercise regularly in all seasons both inside and out. I believe this is also helped by the fact that it's very common for companies to provide a (tax-advantaged) health allowance that subsidizes things like gym memberships, fitness classes, race or other event entries, etc.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#105

Post by throwaway_1987 » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 1:38 PM UTC

DeathArrow wrote: post #88

vidarh wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having spent enough time in the US that the immigration officials used to flick through my passport in disbelief at the number of US stamps I had in there, I think the disbelief is entirely justified because our concern is not what life is like as someone in a good job, but what society is like somewhere with the huge disparities and huge gaps in social safety nets that are there in the US, and I've seen enough of th…

>what society is like somewhere with the huge disparities and huge gaps in social safety nets that are there in the US True, in US you have to work to earn a living.

Work does not guarantee a decent living. There are many who work full-time low paying jobs. Many even need a second job to just to "earn a living"

As a European, it is really strange to see this attitude of "survival of the fittest" here on HN

The average HN reader probably works in an office with a decent salary. Why should we deserve better health care than people doing hard physical labor and have to retire early because their bodies are broken. The society is depending on them to function, so we could at least offer them adequate health care. Someone working in a factory or delivering your Amazon packages also work hard. Much harder than what I do.

The lack of humanity in one of the most religious countries in the western world surprises me.

The same can be said about humane treatment of prisoners. Abuse and rape in prisons have become standard jokes in American comedy. I guess they deserve it when they dare to steal your car...

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#106

Post by OfSanguineFire » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 1:42 PM UTC

vegardx wrote: post #102

DeathArrow wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you already have an EU passport, what would be the advantage?

You don't have to apply for a work or residence permit, which means that you can stay in the country indefinitely. If you're from the EEA you have to exit Norway every 3 months, unless you qualify for a work and residence permit, basically, you have to have a job.

Is the 3-month thing actually enforced in Norway on those who do not cause a nuisance or seek benefits? Not only is it rarely enforced in EU countries, but I vaguely recall hearing that there have been court judgements in some country or another that EU/EEA citizens who overstay there cannot be forced to leave.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#107

Post by OfSanguineFire » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 2:14 PM UTC

dontlaugh wrote: post #48

TulliusCicero wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like after the fact reasoning. In an alternate timeline where Norway has no oil and is poor, I can imagine someone saying, "How could you expect them to succeed? Poor farming conditions, terrible winters, hardly any natural resources beyond fish." After all, Russia also has some awful climates, and it doesn't seem to have resulted in strong social cooperation.

It resulted in such strong social cooperation that the majority of the population (the workers) succeeded in a revolution in 1917 and then for decades drastically improved their material conditions. There are of course other factors than climate.

The October Revolution didn’t involve the majority of the population (workers). The Bolsheviks had strong support from railroad workers and the army specifically, and with key infrastructure captured they were able to eventually win the day, albeit after a famous civil war with working-class people fighting on both sides. Many successful revolutions throughout history were won by minority groups.

The October Revolution also wasn’t Russia’s first revolution that year. The tsar had already been ousted in the February Revolution, and considering that Russia had already begun to industrialize significantly in the final years of tsarist rule, it is certainly likely that Russia would have enjoyed rising prosperity even if Lenin had not returned from exile and made his coup.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#108

Post by gwervc » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 3:19 PM UTC

eu-tech-tak wrote: post #67

gwervc wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting but without salary ranges it's hard to know if it worth applying. What are typical bracket for software engineer as junior, 3 years, and 5 years of experience?

>What are typical bracket for software engineer as junior, 3 years, and 5 years of experience? For Oslo the salary range is something like this, a bit lower in smaller cities. These are the "typical" brackets, but you can definitively get a lot more: - 0 YOE - €45k-€60k - 3 YOE - €55k-€90k - 5 YOE - €70k-€150k and up A "median" salary in Oslo for a developer with 3-8 YOE is around €70k-80k. Anyone who has 5 YOE and a…

Thanks for the detailed answer and adding information about taxes! I've to adjust to the cost of living but at first glance that seems still quite higher than what are practiced in my country, especially with some experience.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#109

Post by DeathArrow » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 4:25 PM UTC

throwaway_1987 wrote: post #105

DeathArrow wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what society is like somewhere with the huge disparities and huge gaps in social safety nets that are there in the US True, in US you have to work to earn a living.

Work does not guarantee a decent living. There are many who work full-time low paying jobs. Many even need a second job to just to "earn a living" As a European, it is really strange to see this attitude of "survival of the fittest" here on HN The average HN reader probably works in an office with a decent salary. Why should we deserve better health care than people doing hard physical labor and have to retire early…

You don't deserve goods or services. You pay for them, or others pay for them if you live in a welfare state and you don't work. Either way, the doctor needs the money to buy food.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#110

Post by karaterobot » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 5:49 PM UTC

mhb wrote: post #14

karaterobot wrote: post #3

What does it even mean to be a literary powerhouse in 2023? Of the Norwegian authors they listed, the only name I recognized was Knausgård. His most famous books came out like 10 years ago, and while they were a sensation for a while, I believe they still sold best in Norway . And I think that even the most successful literary novelists of today are selling fewer copies than the moderately successful literary novelis…

Jon Fosse won the 2023 Nobel Prize for Literature. It's not nothing.

Definitely not nothing, but do you read authors because they win the Nobel prize? Probably some people do, but how many? A million people in the world would be my (extremely) generous estimate. And that's literally the highest lifetime honor a literary novelist can receive. Not to disparage these authors, but to put the state of the literary novel in context: that's not a hell of a lot of cultural cache. Again, the question is: what does it mean to be a literary powerhouse in 2023? The stakes seem rather small.