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The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

thedial.world

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Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#81

Post by DeathArrow »

max_ wrote: post #42
hilux wrote: post #7

This feels like over-analysis. Norway, with 0.07% of the world's population, has the world's best chess player ever. Two of the top ten bridge players. One of the very best soccer players under 25. And so on. Basically, it's a very oil-rich country that uses its wealth to invest in its people . And we see the results in every field of endeavor. Many other "rich" countries, whatever the source of their wealth, do not…

What political/economic philosophers are the Nordic economic & political systems based on? Or what interesting book may you recommend for one to read to learn more about thier social/political system.

>What political/economic philosophers are the Nordic economic & political systems based on?

They were based on socialism and progresism but things are changing since recently people started voting with the right.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#82

Post by DeathArrow »

aurareturn wrote: post #9
hilux wrote: post #7

This feels like over-analysis. Norway, with 0.07% of the world's population, has the world's best chess player ever. Two of the top ten bridge players. One of the very best soccer players under 25. And so on. Basically, it's a very oil-rich country that uses its wealth to invest in its people . And we see the results in every field of endeavor. Many other "rich" countries, whatever the source of their wealth, do not…

Basically, it's a very oil-rich country that uses its wealth to invest in its people Agreed. It's done good for its people with its oil money - but the first thing it needed was oil. I think a more impressive country is Singapore, which has no natural resources, but projects well above its weight.

>I think a more impressive country is Singapore, which has no natural resources, but projects well above its weight.

And Japan and South Korea and China. And new stars are rising, like Vietnam

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#83

Post by vidarh »

mejutoco wrote: post #79
vidarh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not be very replicable on a global basis, but given the person you replied to mentioned the US: The US has significantly higher average salaries than Norway, and so it is very much valid to raise the issue of what the US is doing with the wealth it creates.

Higher average in itself does not mean that much without taking into account Purchase Power. From this https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/purchasin... it seems US has about a 10x PPP difference, so your main point stands.

The 10x there compares local currency to USD. Given the NOK to USD exchange rate, a 10x PPP difference between NOK and USD means Norway and the US are near parity in terms of purchasing power in USD.

Actually, the salaries are now much closer than I thought, so depending on exactly which measures you use I might well have been wrong that US salaries are (still) much higher than Norwegian ones. The gap used to be fairly huge.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#84

Post by DeathArrow »

hilux wrote: post #12
aurareturn wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, it's a very oil-rich country that uses its wealth to invest in its people Agreed. It's done good for its people with its oil money - but the first thing it needed was oil. I think a more impressive country is Singapore, which has no natural resources, but projects well above its weight.

My comment points out that Norway has done something amazing that other countries have not come close to doing. Look at what the US (I am American) has done with our wealth: highest healthcare expenditure per capita (50% more than #2), 47th in life expectancy, fifth-highest incarceration rate. What is served by reflexively trying to diminish Norway's accomplishments with a "BUT Singapore is more impressive"? Why not…

>Why not instead try to learn from Norway?

Singapore as opposed to Norway doesn't have a socialist dominated political system. That means more freedom.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#85

Post by DeathArrow »

hilux wrote: post #22
greenhexagon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is projected to produce $122,421,000,000 worth of oil next year, against a population of only 5 million people. That's about $24,400 in annual oil revenue per citizen. Their sovereign wealth fund (profits from oil re-invested into the global stock market and real estate) is about $270,000 per citizen. Take the risk-free rate of putting that in US Treasuries and it's an additional $13,500 per citizen per year.…

And have UAE, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia achieved what Norway has? (Where did anyone say that social programs are the source of Norway's wealth?!) No one is acknowledging the US data I posted. Even if the US is not as rich per capita as Norway is, can we learn something from Norway (about investment in education and healthcare) with the resources we do have? BTW, US per-capita healthcare cost is much, much higher than N…

>And have UAE, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia achieved what Norway has?

What does Norway have that UAE should desire?

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#86

Post by DeathArrow »

hilux wrote: post #71
vidarh wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the rest of the developed world would cheer on if the US just copied any of the dozens of other models for universal healthcare that produce better outcomes cheaper than the current US system. What we find shocking is that the US appears uniquely unable to fix these things among developed countries despite the vast wealth and resources. There's a level of political dysfunction that is really hard to watch, bu…

Check out the tsunami of white American kids refusing to get even the most basic vaccines (because Jesus) ... polio and other long-forgotten diseases are about to make a big comeback. NY Times had a big story about this. "Insane" doesn't do it justice. We need new words.

>Check out the tsunami of white American kids refusing to get even the most basic vaccines (because Jesus)

There's no need to be racist.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#87

Post by timwaagh »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #31
hilux wrote: post #7

This feels like over-analysis. Norway, with 0.07% of the world's population, has the world's best chess player ever. Two of the top ten bridge players. One of the very best soccer players under 25. And so on. Basically, it's a very oil-rich country that uses its wealth to invest in its people . And we see the results in every field of endeavor. Many other "rich" countries, whatever the source of their wealth, do not…

The Logic of Political Survival predicts that any country with an already strong and healthy democracy which later discovers enormous natural resources will have a much better shot at overcoming the curse of resources than those where these trends are weaker. Selectorate theory is the real key here, and it's why Norway is probably going to knock it out of the park with its newly discovered phosphate deposits as well,…

We can throw this 'logic of political survival' theory straight into the thrash. Because this is strictly the logic of n=1. Humans trying to see patterns where none exist. Norwegians did very well, because they did. Maybe they're special or lucky or blessed by Odin or whatever. Or because of some other more legitimate reason. But in any case it's not because it's an inevitable result of strong democracy.

Counterexample: us Netherlanders didn't do very well with our once plentiful gas reserves. Which is why the resource curse is called Dutch disease. In spite of having at the time a century of democratic tradition, our prime minister chose to pump the wealth straight into the social system and not build a national wealth fund. Causing a decade of economic decline.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#88

Post by DeathArrow »

vidarh wrote: post #56
greenhexagon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "American conditions" - is a term with decades of use in Norwegian politics to scare voters. Neat, I always enjoy learning about the various bits of propaganda and stereotypes that exist in different cultures and this was a new term for me. I've many times had fairly entertaining conversations with Scandinavians about what life in the US is actually like compared to their expectations. They always seem a bit in dis…

Having spent enough time in the US that the immigration officials used to flick through my passport in disbelief at the number of US stamps I had in there, I think the disbelief is entirely justified because our concern is not what life is like as someone in a good job, but what society is like somewhere with the huge disparities and huge gaps in social safety nets that are there in the US, and I've seen enough of th…

>what society is like somewhere with the huge disparities and huge gaps in social safety nets that are there in the US

True, in US you have to work to earn a living.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#89

Post by newfriend »

fxtentacle wrote: post #38
hilux wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because ... cold causes shrinkage?!

Exercise is difficult, lack of sunlight increases depression, and very few bikini beach parties ;)

Remember back when Sweden was most well known for the Swedish Bikini Team instead of No-go zones?

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#90

Post by timwaagh »

hilux wrote: post #7

This feels like over-analysis. Norway, with 0.07% of the world's population, has the world's best chess player ever. Two of the top ten bridge players. One of the very best soccer players under 25. And so on. Basically, it's a very oil-rich country that uses its wealth to invest in its people . And we see the results in every field of endeavor. Many other "rich" countries, whatever the source of their wealth, do not…

I don't think this analysis is any better and at least the article tries to tell a story.

Sweden, a country next door with not that many people and no oil has someone named Ibrahimovic who is a bit more than a talent. They also produced some of the most hyped novels of the last decade and some of the worst furniture and probably a few other cherry picked examples.

The point is they're just as talented as the Norwegians yet 'no oil'.

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