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The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

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Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#61

Post by OfSanguineFire »

altacc wrote: post #53
fxtentacle wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exercise is difficult, lack of sunlight increases depression, and very few bikini beach parties ;)

> Exercise is difficult Which is why they invented skiing! Norwegians do quite a lot of physical exercise but it has to vary over the year. Cross country skiing is a good way to get into nature and is great full body workout. But yes, the bikini beach party season seems to be so short that I've missed it every year, unless you're talking about the quick run from the sauna to the icy sea.

Indeed, from a couple of friends who moved to Finnish Lapland, I know the frozen north is a great place for exercise in the winter because of all the skiing and fatbike opportunities, with a network of free shelters stocked with firewood so that one can do overnight trips. But now that I recall that most of Norway’s population is on the coast where temperatures stay more moderate, I wonder how many of them have access to good skiing conditions right outside their door.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#62

Post by vidarh »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #35
hilux wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And have UAE, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia achieved what Norway has? (Where did anyone say that social programs are the source of Norway's wealth?!) No one is acknowledging the US data I posted. Even if the US is not as rich per capita as Norway is, can we learn something from Norway (about investment in education and healthcare) with the resources we do have? BTW, US per-capita healthcare cost is much, much higher than N…

> BTW, US per-capita healthcare cost is much, much higher than Norway's, and US life expectancy is much lower. But that's the issue -- it's not a matter of allocating the money. The US is already spending it. The question is, how do you make it more cost efficient? "Just do what Norway does" doesn't solve anything for two reasons. The first is that it doesn't tell you if that's the right answer, only that what Norway…

I think the rest of the developed world would cheer on if the US just copied any of the dozens of other models for universal healthcare that produce better outcomes cheaper than the current US system.

What we find shocking is that the US appears uniquely unable to fix these things among developed countries despite the vast wealth and resources. There's a level of political dysfunction that is really hard to watch, but also incredibly hard to ignore.

EDIT: To give one example that I personally find shocking: That Medicare has restrictions on the extent of its ability to negotiate drug prices. I get your point that this is in part due to entrenched interests as seen with the attacks on the recent attempt to fix this issue by using powers under the Inflation Reduction Act, but that even chipping away on things like that is proving as hard as it is, is bizarre seen from the outside and the new ability to negotiate prices is still ridiculously limited.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#63

Post by wafflemaker »

gwervc wrote: post #54
eu-tech-tak wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if anyone wants to help me land my first gig over in Oslo, I'm conviniently next-next door in Finland I made a website to help non-norwegian speakers find a tech/it/software job in Norway. All the job posts should be in English and only a few jobs require some Norwegian knowledge. If you know Java, .NET or JavaScript/Typescript there are a lot of well(-enough) paid jobs in Norway. https://nordictechjobs.com/jobs

Interesting but without salary ranges it's hard to know if it worth applying. What are typical bracket for software engineer as junior, 3 years, and 5 years of experience?

You would have to find a junior or more experience eng and check his earnings online.

As to earnings by industry, you can check them on the statistics bureau website: https://www.ssb.no/arbeid-og-lonn/lonn-og-arbeidskraftkostna...

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#64

Post by doktrin »

greenhexagon wrote: post #34
vidarh wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> enables them to have the government programs and society they currently enjoy, rather than mistakenly thinking those programs are the source of their wealth. The person you replied to didn't seem to imply they were, but conversely asked why the US is performing as it is given its wealth compared to Norway. Average salaries in the US are far higher than in Norway, and GDP per capita, so you would think the US could…

> "American conditions" - is a term with decades of use in Norwegian politics to scare voters. Neat, I always enjoy learning about the various bits of propaganda and stereotypes that exist in different cultures and this was a new term for me. I've many times had fairly entertaining conversations with Scandinavians about what life in the US is actually like compared to their expectations. They always seem a bit in dis…

> They always seem a bit in disbelief at how safe, comfortable, easy and secure life is in reality

The US is by no means unique in this regard. Outside of active conflict zones and failed/failing states, most countries in the world can provide comfort and at least the illusion of safety to those with resources and means.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#65

Post by creer »

greenhexagon wrote: post #18
hilux wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment points out that Norway has done something amazing that other countries have not come close to doing. Look at what the US (I am American) has done with our wealth: highest healthcare expenditure per capita (50% more than #2), 47th in life expectancy, fifth-highest incarceration rate. What is served by reflexively trying to diminish Norway's accomplishments with a "BUT Singapore is more impressive"? Why not…

Norway is projected to produce $122,421,000,000 worth of oil next year, against a population of only 5 million people. That's about $24,400 in annual oil revenue per citizen. Their sovereign wealth fund (profits from oil re-invested into the global stock market and real estate) is about $270,000 per citizen. Take the risk-free rate of putting that in US Treasuries and it's an additional $13,500 per citizen per year.…

> not countries like the US

It can't seriously be argued that the US are not a rich country? In GDP, the US are in fact in the same class as Norway. And for Norway part of that goes to the fund, while the US government runs a deficit.

As for Norway specifically, their sovereign wealth fund is there specifically so that the country does NOT use this wealth quickly (or much at all for now).

At any rate, no, the US could absolutely do much better.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#66

Post by [deleted] »

brigandish wrote: post #43
lnsru wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in russia one bad word in good environment with some kgb buddy might get you a trip to gulag. So everybody was very careful choosing conversation partners and topics. That’s not the way to build strong social cooperation.

It sounds like a form of strong social cooperation to me, just one that no one likes. And since strong social cooperation sounds so good to some people, they start to look to separate it from the strong social cooperation they like, either knowingly or unknowingly, and we end up with a similar situation to the stereotypical "ah, but that wasn't real socialism" socialist, where it just can't be admitted to be anything…

[deleted]

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#67

Post by eu-tech-tak »

gwervc wrote: post #54
eu-tech-tak wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if anyone wants to help me land my first gig over in Oslo, I'm conviniently next-next door in Finland I made a website to help non-norwegian speakers find a tech/it/software job in Norway. All the job posts should be in English and only a few jobs require some Norwegian knowledge. If you know Java, .NET or JavaScript/Typescript there are a lot of well(-enough) paid jobs in Norway. https://nordictechjobs.com/jobs

Interesting but without salary ranges it's hard to know if it worth applying. What are typical bracket for software engineer as junior, 3 years, and 5 years of experience?

>What are typical bracket for software engineer as junior, 3 years, and 5 years of experience?

For Oslo the salary range is something like this, a bit lower in smaller cities. These are the "typical" brackets, but you can definitively get a lot more:

- 0 YOE - €45k-€60k

- 3 YOE - €55k-€90k

- 5 YOE - €70k-€150k and up

A "median" salary in Oslo for a developer with 3-8 YOE is around €70k-80k. Anyone who has 5 YOE and actually asks for a higher salary can easily get 1 million NOK or €90k++.

Expect a 32%-38% tax rate on your income.

If you earn 1 million NOK (€85k) you will pay €27k in tax.

Here is the tax calculator from the official tax office: https://skattekalkulator.app.skatteetaten.no/

EDIT: Here is an article in Norwegian about software developer salaries. It shows about the same numbers as mine, just a lower ceiling.

https://witted.com/blog/software-freelancing/lonnsniva-for-u...

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#68

Post by defrost »

doktrin wrote: post #64
greenhexagon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "American conditions" - is a term with decades of use in Norwegian politics to scare voters. Neat, I always enjoy learning about the various bits of propaganda and stereotypes that exist in different cultures and this was a new term for me. I've many times had fairly entertaining conversations with Scandinavians about what life in the US is actually like compared to their expectations. They always seem a bit in dis…

> They always seem a bit in disbelief at how safe, comfortable, easy and secure life is in reality The US is by no means unique in this regard. Outside of active conflict zones and failed/failing states, most countries in the world can provide comfort and at least the illusion of safety to those with resources and means.

It's certainly remarkable that countries exist with cheap affordable health care for all, unemployment safety nets, disability support, and no fear of school shootings at all.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#69

Post by sfn42 »

gwervc wrote: post #54
eu-tech-tak wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if anyone wants to help me land my first gig over in Oslo, I'm conviniently next-next door in Finland I made a website to help non-norwegian speakers find a tech/it/software job in Norway. All the job posts should be in English and only a few jobs require some Norwegian knowledge. If you know Java, .NET or JavaScript/Typescript there are a lot of well(-enough) paid jobs in Norway. https://nordictechjobs.com/jobs

Interesting but without salary ranges it's hard to know if it worth applying. What are typical bracket for software engineer as junior, 3 years, and 5 years of experience?

Anywhere from 500-600k NOK with a fresh bachelor's degree to well over a million NOK with experience.

The best paying jobs are usually provision-based consultant/contractor positions. Some companies go hard in that direction, others lean more towards job security and stuff like that. You get paid less, but you get paid the same amount regardless of whether you have work to do. They spend more money on social things like company trips and other events etc. Then there's various benefits like pension, insurance, they might pay for internet and gym memberships, lots of stuff like that.

You pretty much just have to see what they offer.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#70

Post by kaon123 »

vegardx wrote: post #30
sira04 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a common myth, but he wasn't drunk, and the deal didn't happen that day. Several meetings later with several more officials and the deal went through 2 years after that negotiation. They basically placed the line in the middle, and the norwegians got lucky.

It fits so well with the Norwegian stereotyping of Danish people, which is likely the reason why so many believe in it. It's also worth noting that Denmark also have quite a large oil industry. Another myth seems to be that Norway was a very poor nation before the discovery of oil. According to Jan Eivind Myhre[0], professor emeritus in history at the University of Oslo, this isn't true. Norway has been one of the we…

Fascinating. Maybe a similar mental model applies as in Switzerland. I am a foreigner living in wealthy Switzerland. They also talk about themselves as being very poor a few decades ago. Maybe it is that people really were poor back then, just not as poor as the other europeans, and this for them is hard to imagine.

According to the statistics that I can find, they have been one of the wealthiest european nations for 250 years now, with GDP per capita being 50% higher than the Netherlands consistently for the past 70 years.

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