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The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

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Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#31

Post by hiAndrewQuinn »

hilux wrote: post #7

This feels like over-analysis. Norway, with 0.07% of the world's population, has the world's best chess player ever. Two of the top ten bridge players. One of the very best soccer players under 25. And so on. Basically, it's a very oil-rich country that uses its wealth to invest in its people . And we see the results in every field of endeavor. Many other "rich" countries, whatever the source of their wealth, do not…

The Logic of Political Survival predicts that any country with an already strong and healthy democracy which later discovers enormous natural resources will have a much better shot at overcoming the curse of resources than those where these trends are weaker. Selectorate theory is the real key here, and it's why Norway is probably going to knock it out of the park with its newly discovered phosphate deposits as well, which dwarf the oil profits several times over. The pre-discovery takeaway is to get that democratic process alive and healthy well ahead of time, no matter the circumstances.

On a totally unrelated note, if anyone wants to help me land my first gig over in Oslo, I'm conviniently next-next door in Finland. Have EU passport, likes keeping a good thing going, willing to learn Norwegian (Fosse's plays are great) -- will travel.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#32

Post by reducesuffering »

riffraff wrote: post #21
tazu wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If that was the case you'd see the same outcomes from Sweden, but you don't. The obvious differentiating factor seem to be oil, Norway was a poor-isj country until a few decades ago.

Sweden is far more similar to Norway than it is to the rest of the world and they don't have much oil. Oil turbocharged Norway maybe 25%. Sweden still ranks top of most metrics people prefer.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#33

Post by klipt »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #31
hilux wrote: post #7

This feels like over-analysis. Norway, with 0.07% of the world's population, has the world's best chess player ever. Two of the top ten bridge players. One of the very best soccer players under 25. And so on. Basically, it's a very oil-rich country that uses its wealth to invest in its people . And we see the results in every field of endeavor. Many other "rich" countries, whatever the source of their wealth, do not…

The Logic of Political Survival predicts that any country with an already strong and healthy democracy which later discovers enormous natural resources will have a much better shot at overcoming the curse of resources than those where these trends are weaker. Selectorate theory is the real key here, and it's why Norway is probably going to knock it out of the park with its newly discovered phosphate deposits as well,…

Even better than EU, you're part of the Nordic Passport Union. Which I believe means you can naturalize as Norwegian with just two years residency there.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#34

Post by greenhexagon »

vidarh wrote: post #26
greenhexagon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is projected to produce $122,421,000,000 worth of oil next year, against a population of only 5 million people. That's about $24,400 in annual oil revenue per citizen. Their sovereign wealth fund (profits from oil re-invested into the global stock market and real estate) is about $270,000 per citizen. Take the risk-free rate of putting that in US Treasuries and it's an additional $13,500 per citizen per year.…

> enables them to have the government programs and society they currently enjoy, rather than mistakenly thinking those programs are the source of their wealth. The person you replied to didn't seem to imply they were, but conversely asked why the US is performing as it is given its wealth compared to Norway. Average salaries in the US are far higher than in Norway, and GDP per capita, so you would think the US could…

> "American conditions" - is a term with decades of use in Norwegian politics to scare voters.

Neat, I always enjoy learning about the various bits of propaganda and stereotypes that exist in different cultures and this was a new term for me.

I've many times had fairly entertaining conversations with Scandinavians about what life in the US is actually like compared to their expectations. They always seem a bit in disbelief at how safe, comfortable, easy and secure life is in reality. I've learned to reassure them that things would be different if I were an entry level worker at Walmart or McDonald's, and that that life might look more similar to their expectations.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#35

Post by AnthonyMouse »

hilux wrote: post #22
greenhexagon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is projected to produce $122,421,000,000 worth of oil next year, against a population of only 5 million people. That's about $24,400 in annual oil revenue per citizen. Their sovereign wealth fund (profits from oil re-invested into the global stock market and real estate) is about $270,000 per citizen. Take the risk-free rate of putting that in US Treasuries and it's an additional $13,500 per citizen per year.…

And have UAE, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia achieved what Norway has? (Where did anyone say that social programs are the source of Norway's wealth?!) No one is acknowledging the US data I posted. Even if the US is not as rich per capita as Norway is, can we learn something from Norway (about investment in education and healthcare) with the resources we do have? BTW, US per-capita healthcare cost is much, much higher than N…

> BTW, US per-capita healthcare cost is much, much higher than Norway's, and US life expectancy is much lower.

But that's the issue -- it's not a matter of allocating the money. The US is already spending it.

The question is, how do you make it more cost efficient? "Just do what Norway does" doesn't solve anything for two reasons.

The first is that it doesn't tell you if that's the right answer, only that what Norway is doing is better than the status quo in the US. But the status quo in the US is uniquely dysfunctional, so that's not a high bar. You still don't know if it's better to do what Norway does or what Singapore does (same life expectancy as Norway, much different system) or some third thing which could hypothetically be better than either of them.

The second is that it doesn't solve the political issue in the US, which is that all of the people making money from the status quo don't want it to change. It doesn't matter if the proposal is a public healthcare system or a market system with actual price transparency or something else entirely, until you can overcome the political inertia of the incumbent system.

And these feed into each other. Because it's obvious that the existing US system is inefficient, but it's not obvious which of the potentially more efficient systems to replace it with, so the people with different ideas fight against each other instead of fighting with each other against the status quo.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#36

Post by Goodroo »

mongol wrote: post #28
TulliusCicero wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like after the fact reasoning. In an alternate timeline where Norway has no oil and is poor, I can imagine someone saying, "How could you expect them to succeed? Poor farming conditions, terrible winters, hardly any natural resources beyond fish." After all, Russia also has some awful climates, and it doesn't seem to have resulted in strong social cooperation.

Russia had serfdom and dictatorship for most of its history.

Isn't that much of Europe?

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#37

Post by doktrin »

greenhexagon wrote: post #18
hilux wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment points out that Norway has done something amazing that other countries have not come close to doing. Look at what the US (I am American) has done with our wealth: highest healthcare expenditure per capita (50% more than #2), 47th in life expectancy, fifth-highest incarceration rate. What is served by reflexively trying to diminish Norway's accomplishments with a "BUT Singapore is more impressive"? Why not…

Norway is projected to produce $122,421,000,000 worth of oil next year, against a population of only 5 million people. That's about $24,400 in annual oil revenue per citizen. Their sovereign wealth fund (profits from oil re-invested into the global stock market and real estate) is about $270,000 per citizen. Take the risk-free rate of putting that in US Treasuries and it's an additional $13,500 per citizen per year.…

> Norway was a lower income country until they discovered an infinite money glitch

What metric are you using to arrive at this conclusion? Norway had roughly the same PPP GDP per capita as its neighbors (Sweden, Denmark) for 150 years prior to the discovery of oil.

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#38

Post by fxtentacle »

hilux wrote: post #29
roschdal wrote: post #27

Norway is a nightmare to live in as a male. https://www.yr.no/en/forecast/daily-table/1-72837/Norway/Osl...

Because ... cold causes shrinkage?!

Exercise is difficult, lack of sunlight increases depression, and very few bikini beach parties ;)

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#39

Post by roschdal »

fxtentacle wrote: post #38
hilux wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because ... cold causes shrinkage?!

Exercise is difficult, lack of sunlight increases depression, and very few bikini beach parties ;)

This! I need to escape. Where is the promised land of opportunities these days?

Re: The Norway Model: How the Scandinavian country became a literary powerhouse

#40

Post by fl7305 »

riffraff wrote: post #21
tazu wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If that was the case you'd see the same outcomes from Sweden, but you don't. The obvious differentiating factor seem to be oil, Norway was a poor-isj country until a few decades ago.

I'd argue that you see the same thing in Sweden as in Norway, but without the oil in Sweden's case.

The music industry in Sweden is huge. Check out who wrote and produced many of the US top hits over the last 30 years. Not to speak of the local Swedish bands who make it big internationally.

The software industry is also huge in Sweden (Spotify, Skype, Minecraft, Battlefield, Klarna, Candy Crush, etc). The explanation for this is largely that the kids who grew up in the late 70s and in the 80s got very good support from their parents in getting their own home computer where they could learn to program. This is very similar to young chess players in Norway.

Sweden also punches well above its weight in some sports. Winter sports are kinda a given for a Nordic country, but tennis doesn't fit into that mold. Yet Sweden dominated tennis for a while. This was due to parents and society supporting young kids learning to play tennis in the 60s and 70s.

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