Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban • Hacker News Board

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#161

Post by talldatethrow » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 2:53 AM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #94

talldatethrow wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One, students that don't listen used to be removed. So, potential totally yes. Two, I expect her to put a lot of personal effort into becoming at expert in motivation, behavior management, discipline for kids. I expect her to at least read ONE book about this. She complains for 2+ years about this that I've known her. I recommend books, she gets insulted and explains why it's not relevant. IMO a teacher being paid $9…

IMO a teacher being paid $90k a year for 7 hours a day of work, 10 months a year, should be working hard to improve. Teacher salaries for San Ramon (and California generally) are publicly accessible (by band, and for some counties like San Ramon by name ), so I doubt very much your soon-to-be-ex girlfriend is making $90k as a sixth grade teacher. She'd have to be fairly old and well-established as a teacher, or have…

A guy above me sent a link where you can find the salaries. A long term teacher in her 30s, with masters, a few extra credentials, yada yada, will make $90k.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#162

Post by talldatethrow » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 2:54 AM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #84

talldatethrow wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kid can own the phone. In silent. In the backpack. Never to be seen on school grounds. And if they need to make a call, they go to the admin building, and explain why, and use the office phone.

That's the way it used to work - communication goes through the administration. If my parents schedule changed they could call and leave a message with the office for me. If I had an emergency the admin could call them. It's certainly simpler with cell phones though.

Cool. Kids aren't paying attention most of their school day, but at least it's simpler to teach them.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#163

Post by grogenaut » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 2:54 AM UTC

easton wrote: post #20

huytersd wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just have a jammer on school premises and use mac auth for the wifi in addition to the the metal detectors at the entrance.

The jammer will get you a visit from the friendly people at the FCC. Much easier to just make your school have some thick walls that prevent cell signals :)

you don't need thick, just wrap the school in chicken wire like old houses.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#164

Post by s1artibartfast » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 2:59 AM UTC

jakeinspace wrote: post #135

s1artibartfast wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tactics dont work in what sense? Are there students that learn better when there are no consequences and their peers are playing music in class or shouting over the teacher?

I'm saying basically no teaching tactic works when the kids have shitty home lives and have a real risk of getting shot on a daily basis.

Sure, then you need a means to triage and try to save who you can.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#165

Post by Flameancer » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 3:01 AM UTC

lukev wrote: post #9

I'm a little surprised this is newsworthy... this is already the policy at my kid's middle school (NC public schools.) Is it that uncommon? I get that it's probably harder to enforce into the upper grades...

What district and how enforced is it? My mother is a teacher in CMS and while it’s a policy there it’s hardly ever enforced….mianly due to parents. When I grew up in NC (private school) you weren’t allowed to have phones in the class either and if caught you either had to give to the teacher or be sent to the principals office if you refused to comply. If you still didn’t comply you got suspended. Most would just give to the teacher if you got caught.

Meanwhile I would bring my PSP to school and just leave it in my locker as it was the perfect MP3 device to walk home from school with, or use it for football/track game days.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#166

Post by verall » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 3:06 AM UTC

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #151

nox100 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you have any repoed studies that show kids who were spanked as kids (not beaten) needed therapy as adults? AFAICT, all the parents I know that don't punish their kids have the worst kids with the most problems. I'm not saying you should spank your kids. I'm only questioning whether it actually causes any problems. I was spanked, my sister was spanked. All my cousins etc. None of us have any issues. We love our par…

"Child abuse" is a fuzzier term than many seem to acknowledge, subject to passing conventions and fads. This isn't to say there aren't obvious examples of child abuse (beating your kids, sexual abuse, gaslighting, or all sorts of emotional and psychological manipulation or whatever), but today, giving an incorrigibly disobedient child throwing an interminable tantrum a swat on the tush to shake them out of it gets CP…

> giving an incorrigibly disobedient child throwing an interminable tantrum a swat on the tush to shake them out of it gets CPS involved

It really doesn't.

> Even worse, grotesque "medical" procedures and treatments against which that swat pales in comparison.

Ahh, I see what you've got going on here...

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#167

Post by s1artibartfast » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 3:07 AM UTC

spaceribs wrote: post #150

tiahura wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a mammal that doesn’t utilize corporal punishment to set boundaries? Does every dog / chimp / giraffe that got nipped by mom for being a brat need therapy?

Are you comparing a human child with dogs, chimps and giraffes? Are you saying it's appropriate to communicate with physical violence in this context? What other human-to-human contexts are there where physical violence or the threat of physical violence is okay? I'm genuinely curious about this worldview, because I personally cannot empathize with this. It's abhorrent to me and my values.

I would argue that basically every human context includes the possibility of physical violence, usually for sufficient transgression the boundaries of others.

If you walk out your door start groping people or try to run off someone's child, you will encounter violence pretty fast.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#168

Post by hparadiz » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 3:16 AM UTC

MeImCounting wrote: post #156

talldatethrow wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what you mean, but I'd love to hear what kind of emergency communication a child needs to make to an adult, or adult to child. (That isn't accomplished the exact same way via the school staff)

I can think of half a dozen times that I personally needed to use a cellphone to contact a family member about something that was absolutely none of administrations business. I wouldnt want some judgmental old woman knowing about private health or emotional problems. This stance that the administration is responsible, respectful or helpful enough to field private communication through is ridiculous. The other side of…

The concept of 24/7 availability is ridiculous in it's own right. I don't buy the idea that they need them for "emergencies".

Smart phones are constant dopamine dispensers. They create a dependency and cause human brains to go into withdrawal when not present. Once the science is laid bare I believe they will become severely curtailed in K-12 environments.

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#169

Post by trumangao » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 3:23 AM UTC

jjulius wrote: post #6

johnea wrote: post #4

That article sucked 8-/ Just repeating the headline doesn't make an article, it is literaly 3 sentences long...

>Just repeating the headline doesn't make an article, it is literaly 3 sentences long... This makes it sound like you only read the three bullet points underneath the headline and didn't bother scrolling further, down to the parts where the middle school principal discusses the policy (aka, the actual article).

> didn't bother scrolling further

Is it really his fault, or is it horrible UI/UX design?

Re: Minnesota middle school students 'seem happy' after cellphone ban

#170

Post by s1artibartfast » Tue, Dec 05, 2023, 3:24 AM UTC

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #153

tiahura wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a mammal that doesn’t utilize corporal punishment to set boundaries? Does every dog / chimp / giraffe that got nipped by mom for being a brat need therapy?

That's a bit of a naturalistic fallacy. At the same time, I think demonizing corporal punishment categorically is a mistake rooted in a false understanding of human nature. I see no problem caning violent criminals, for example.

What if the violent criminal is a child?