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DIY Home EV Charger

jamesfotherby.com

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Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#181

Post by shiroiuma »

sokoloff wrote: post #111
shiroiuma wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’ll often find something on Amazon and if it seems like it’s from a small business, I’ll check to see if I can buy it direct. (Arguably, this behavior is unethical on my part against Amazon, but whatever.) According to whom? The people who think going to the bathroom during a TV commercial break is "stealing"? Since when is comparison-shopping unethical?

I don’t think comparison shopping is unethical; it’s what makes a market work. I do think “thank you for letting me know this product exists and meets my need, but if all else is equal to me, I’ll buy it somewhere else where you don’t benefit from the effort to help me address my need” is not the standard that I hold myself to generally. Further, I think many would object if I found a product through a small business…

You have to find out about the product somewhere, whether it's from a small business, or from Amazon. After that point, then you comparison-shop. So how's the market supposed to work if you're only ethically able to buy it from the first place you saw it? Or do you think you're only allowed to comparison-shop for things you buy repeatedly (like milk and eggs) or things you learn about through advertising?

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#182

Post by gambiting »

nsteel wrote: post #178
gambiting wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>And also remember, if you want access to cheap electricity, you need to use a "real" EVSE. Why? I was on Octopus Go for a long time, I'd just set the in-car timer to charge between 00:30 and 04:30, worked fine even with a 3-pin charger. It won't work with Intelligent Octopus, but it's by no means the only way to get cheap electricity. Not that it matters anyway, I kept a detailed log of our usage for months and con…

You are right, sorry. I forgot there's the non-intelligent version. Although you can't put in much in just 4 (I think?) hours with a granny on Go. Intelligent Go is saving me a lot. But the peak rate where I am (I believe it varies by region) is only a few pence more than the cap. And I'm trying to use washing machine etc only off-peak where possible. My bill is now less compared to before I had the EV.

Yeah but the cap is stupid - on tracker I've been consistently paying 20p/kWh or less.

And yes I was always scheduling the washing machine and dishwasher for the cheap hours at night, but we both work from home, both run a lot of equipment, the daytime cost just was destroying any savings made during the night. But again, that's just us and our situation.

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#183

Post by jesterson »

rockooooo wrote: post #177
jesterson wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not an electrician. I’m not allowed to make alterations to my consumer unit. It's funny how we reach a society where you need government as a babysitter and tell what you can do and whatnot. > Would I mess around with attaching something at 240v that I made from scratch that could burn my house down and kill my family It's also funny how those people readily plug in any consumer device they buy on amazon, which…

> It's funny how we reach a society where you need government as a babysitter and tell what you can do and whatnot. every code regulation is written is blood. the inconvenience is designed to prevent people burning their house down or worse.

> every code regulation is written is blood

Every code regulation is written because some forces lobbied it. It’s nice to think those forces care about you and me, but it’s also incredibly naive.

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#184

Post by sokoloff »

shiroiuma wrote: post #181
sokoloff wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think comparison shopping is unethical; it’s what makes a market work. I do think “thank you for letting me know this product exists and meets my need, but if all else is equal to me, I’ll buy it somewhere else where you don’t benefit from the effort to help me address my need” is not the standard that I hold myself to generally. Further, I think many would object if I found a product through a small business…

You have to find out about the product somewhere, whether it's from a small business, or from Amazon. After that point, then you comparison-shop. So how's the market supposed to work if you're only ethically able to buy it from the first place you saw it? Or do you think you're only allowed to comparison-shop for things you buy repeatedly (like milk and eggs) or things you learn about through advertising?

My personal belief system is "it's fine to buy it from the place that's cheapest/most convenient/otherwise best, but in the case of ties, you should buy it from the place that was most helpful".

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#185

Post by marcosdumay »

amluto wrote: post #173
marcosdumay wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be thinking about short circuits. That's not what my post is about. (Anyway, plastic conduits are quite capable of containing the mess.) And yes, they are way less dangerous if you have ground fault protection. To the point that I'm not sure it's still important to ban them. But they don't have any upside either.

I think metal conduits are most useful in more industrial-ish spaces where they're exposed -- they're quite resistant to getting banged up. Schedule 80 PVC works, too, but it's harder to work with than steel (at least for an electrician with the right tools).

Indeed, they are useful for exposed installations.

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#186

Post by schiffern »

repiret wrote: post #104
schiffern wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm disappointed at the anti-DIY sentiment How would you feel about a "DIY House Circuit Breakers" project? This is essentially the equivalent. Total insanity.

I disagree - the actual current switching electronics are off-the-shelf relays. It's more like "didn't use a GFCI or AFCI breaker where one is required, but did try to address the same safety hazard those breakers address, in a way that wasn't as good as such a breaker, but isn't totally incompetent"

> the actual current switching electronics are off-the-shelf relays

So? The system that controls the relay (with logic to prevent exposed high-voltage contacts while the car is unplugged, or danger if the cord is damaged or immersed in water) is just as safety-critical as the relay itself.

> "didn't use a GFCI or AFCI breaker where one is required, but did try to address the same safety hazard those breakers address, in a way that wasn't as good as such a breaker

Stop right there. What you describe is automatically incompetent, all by itself.

Seriously, don't do this ever. There are extremely good reasons why anything but certified, unmodified hardware is illegal to install in electrical wiring. There are equally good reasons why you can't omit required safety hardware, even if you "tried" with something else.

These laws are written in blood.

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#187

Post by schiffern »

Moto7451 wrote: post #7
timthorn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have called an EVSE a charger - I might be naive but what's the distinction you're trying to make?

The name itself, Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, indicates the focus of the hardware beyond simply being a fancy plug and a contactor. Higher end EVSE will do things like load balancing a shared supply of power (ie chaining multiple Tesla EVSEs to the same 50A line), setting supply power limits depending on how much power is in use (ie the Porsche Connect Plus modulating lower current when a clothing dryer starts)…

> The name itself, Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, indicates the focus of the hardware beyond simply being a fancy plug and a contactor.

Thank you, I wasn't previously aware of this distinction.

So for simple units that are just "a fancy plug and contactor" (no balancing, limiting, V2G, V1G, etc), what do we call them? I know not to say "EVSE" now, but what should I use? Thanks again.

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#188

Post by mindslight »

bigfudge wrote: post #129
mindslight wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the distinction you're making with my specific example, but I'm aware of no such distinction for the policies I've had. Are you referencing any concrete laws or contractual terms? Also then, a different example: You plug in a non-NRTL-tested appliance from Amazon, and it burns down your house. Clearly outside the bounds of what is prudent, but also something many people commonly do. You're telling me that insur…

Ianal but the law often seems to work on the basis of terms like reasonable or expected. Buying junk electronics from Amazon is so common and risks so little publicised that it doesn’t seem reasonable to exclude them. Building a diy power supply is very uncommon and almost certainly requires knowledge to do so that would also tell you it’s a dumb idea. As an aside- do cheap electronics actually burn a lot of houses d…

If you can find some laws or contractual terms where some homeowners insurance is disclaiming homeowners doing things that are not "reasonable", I'm all ears. I'd love to find out where this meme started, or a list of jurisdictions where this can actually happen. I just think this tendency to assert that DIY causes all these scary things, especially on the pan-jurisdiction Web, is terribly harmful FUD. It appears to be from the same vein as that "voiding your warranty" nonsense (which has thankfully started to go away).

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#189

Post by beej71 »

bigfudge wrote: post #131
beej71 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also a little disappointed. Yes it can go wrong, but it sounds like the author has learned a lot and listens to criticism. And clearly embodies the hacker spirit. And I have a large number of items that either came with my house or I purchased legitimately that could absolutely burn it to the ground. It's all measured risk. When I get an EV, I'll be adding a consumer grade charger to the house. And then I'll trus…

You don’t have zero knowledge though. Most electronics sold is safe, and designs tested. So your prior for them burning down the house should be much lower than for something you diyed

Most is. But there have been two significant house fires from electrical systems in my small town in the last year.

It's also my experience that if you have the know-how, you can often do a better job than the professionals you hire, or the factory that mass-produces a product for the highest possible margins.

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#190

Post by sowbug »

shiroiuma wrote: post #67
sowbug wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is surprising to see this question on HN. We regularly see Show HN projects that cost tens of thousands of dollars in time (assuming a typical software engineering hourly rate), but that aren't all that innovative compared to existing options. And we love those projects. Why would DIY effort outside the software domain be any different?

I don't think this is a valid comparison. In DIY projects, your time is free: you don't count your engineering hourly rate as part of the cost of building the thing. The only cost is the actual costs incurred, which is mainly parts and materials. So a Show HN project that's purely software effectively is worth $0, because the creator made it in their free time, instead of spending that time playing video games or wat…

When I was 20 years old, I would have agreed with your position. But that was a long time ago.

Everyone, no matter how materially wealthy they are, gets 24 hours per day. That time is, by definition, 100% of the time that you'll get, which means that its value (intrinsic) is nearly infinite. This is true even if its price (extrinsic) is zero.

My point in mentioning an engineering rate was not to quibble about what free time costs. It was to say that even if someone confuses price with value, we can agree the the value gained from time well spent is very high. So it seems strange to criticize a hardware project that had $X of "hard" costs, $Y of "soft" costs, and $Z of benefits, when we regularly admire software projects that are valued identically, except that $X is close to zero. $X + $Y + $Z = a huge net positive value (judging from the number of HN comments and votes, as well as the pride that OP shows in the writeup). For many of these Show HN posts, it doesn't matter if $X is $300 or $0; the math still evaluates to awesomeness.

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