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HTML attributes for improved accessibility and user experience

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Re: HTML attributes for improved accessibility and user experience

#51

Post by tambourine_man »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #49
tambourine_man wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's just no way to convince Google to use English-only when I'm in another country other than using a VPN. I changed the settings multiple times, disabled the auto-detect language, but it always leaks in on suggestions or results. Just like there's no way to make Youtube disable autoplay of videos. One week later or so, it reverts back to its default behavior. Or for Google to respect that the account I'm using r…

What about http://google.com/ncr for No Country Redirect?

Yeah, those were the days, but that doesn't work anymore. I see plenty of Portuguese results in google.com, even though I have only English as “Preferred Language” and “Automatically add languages: Off” in https://myaccount.google.com/language

Same with all the other rants above. Turning off autoplay in Youtube has become a weekly tradition here, like watering the cactus.

Re: HTML attributes for improved accessibility and user experience

#52

Post by Flimm »

stephenr wrote: post #35
dev_slash_null wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, thats just not true. Accept-Lanuage is set to English most of the time, even for people in non-enlish speaking counties. It's not that they cannot use English, it's that experiments show that users are more likely to interact with content that is in their predicted language, even when Accept-Language is set to English.

> Accept-Lanuage is set to English most of the time, even for people in non-enlish speaking counties. Unless you can point to some kind of evidence that shows Accept-Language is set to English regardless of the host OS' language/region setting, there's zero reason to believe this claim. > It's not that they cannot use English Right, the entirety of non-english speaking, internet-using humans are able to read English,…

I've seen quite a few people with my own eyes use devices with an English interface (or French) without knowing much English (or French). Some of them are illiterate. This is quite common in some parts of the world. These people find use in their English devices, because websites like YouTube provide content in their language even when the interface is not in their language.

Sometimes these people cannot switch the interface language of the operating system. For example٫ Windows Single Language edition forbids changing the language of the interface, and it is common in developing countries.

Re: HTML attributes for improved accessibility and user experience

#53

Post by sylware »

pphysch wrote: post #50
sylware wrote: post #11

And html table layout are not harmful, actually 2D semantic HTML documents can do wonders as they can be reasonably displayed with a hardcoded css beyond good enough. The only thing missing is how to display the table rules, but from a semantic point of view. Namely, I would kind of un-obsolete the table BORDER attribute, as it gives the information that seeing the rules is somewhat important. Or maybe an attribute b…

Why would you use for layout in 2023? I've heard of no-JS users, but no-CSS users sounds like an April Fools joke. A few lines of + appropriate usage of HTML content tags is almost certainly going to be less bytes than abusing for layout.

I am a noscript/basic (x)html user, indeed. Not even css.

Re: HTML attributes for improved accessibility and user experience

#54

Post by anymouse123456 »

robocat wrote: post #43
bshacklett wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish this attribute was never added. The idea that a site owner should have that much control over my browser’s behavior is completely contrary to the concept of what a User Agent is intended to be. I’ve never seen a legitimate use case for disabling autocomplete, but have been prevented from using my password manager on many occasions, resulting in me having to either modify the source code via developer to…

Autofill assumes all fields are associated with the person who is sitting at the computer. That assumption is wrong for an administrator editing user configuration. You don't want the admin's name or address by default if the admin is configuring a new user. Or if the admin role is editing blank user data. Admins are often managers so you can't just disable autocomplete at the browser level.

This. But also for any data for any enumerated type.

It's so effing stupid and short sighted.

Re: HTML attributes for improved accessibility and user experience

#55

Post by graypegg »

SpaceL10n wrote: post #26
anymouse123456 wrote: post #19

re: the autocomplete attribute. It would have been nice to include a brief explanation of all the ways this feature is likely to break what you expect. For example, recent versions of Chrome will autocomplete against a table of values across all domains for the given field "name" attribute, regardless of what you put into the autocomplete attribute [0]. I suppose this would be a fine decision if all form fields in al…

I too am incredibly salty from my past accessibility work. Knowing the HTML attributes is one thing, but applying them to your product in a predictable way is another. Folks talk about the importance of cross-browser testing, but willfully neglect cross-screenreader testing. The incentive for industry to meet the needs of these users just isn't where it should be. Too many stakeholders agree that meeting the needs of…

YES. I wrote something [0] that combined a whole bunch of annoyances I’ve had at past jobs. Web developers tend to use a private definition of the word “accessible” that’s so hyper technical in specification that any conversation about the actual experience of using assistive technology ends with the something like “why are you using VoiceOver?”. It’s not about the resulting interface, but the specific and lintable stats.

[0] https://graypegg.com/2023/11/25/the-private-definition-of-ac...

Re: HTML attributes for improved accessibility and user experience

#56

Post by anymouse123456 »

542458 wrote: post #24
anymouse123456 wrote: post #19

re: the autocomplete attribute. It would have been nice to include a brief explanation of all the ways this feature is likely to break what you expect. For example, recent versions of Chrome will autocomplete against a table of values across all domains for the given field "name" attribute, regardless of what you put into the autocomplete attribute [0]. I suppose this would be a fine decision if all form fields in al…

The way autocomplete works in browsers is absolutely infuriating. Because a bunch of misguided orgs went around disabling autocomplete on login fields, now browsers aggressively ignore attempts to disable it and there's no elegant way to turn it off when browsers are wrong i.e., when they're autofilling user login data into database credentials.

IMHO, it's far less bad to have some "misguided orgs" disable a feature on software they wrote than to have misguided browser engineers force all web software to suggest obviously inappropriate nonsense to billions of users, forever.
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