Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also in Japan, there has been an increasing use of aluminum (!) in construction, since it will generally be melted and re-used after the structure is no longer useful. https://www.acsa-arch.org/chapter/toyo-itos-second-age-of-al...
What's the problem with aluminium? I would always build structures out of aluminium if aluminium would be strong enough. It has extreme corrosion resistance, it's cheap, it's easy to handle, you can easily make almost any imaginable shape with it, you can cheaply reuse it, it's very light.
Experts revive ancient techniques to make concrete more sustainable
51–60 of 71 posts
Re: Experts revive ancient techniques to make concrete more sustainable
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
The ancient Roman concrete was very different from modern: it was more thick, could not ne poured etc. But more importantly, it had no rebar, which is the main thing that corrodes over time. Ancient buildings could use molten lead to join together pieces of stone, but steel could not be made in the volume needed for reinforced structures.
Thing is we can use rebar in concrete for indefinately long use if we plan ahead, use sacrificial annodes to stave off corrosion or use stainless steel or use carbonfiber rebar as they won't rust. Hell using a polymer coating on rebar can prevent moisture contacting the surface of steel and rusting but that would require added cost and care when preping to prevent the polymer from being damaged prior to being embedde…
Re: Experts revive ancient techniques to make concrete more sustainable
#53I was a bit shocked when I learned that reinforced concrete only has a lifespan of about 100 years. That means that if you buy a condo in a building built in the 1970s, the building will become unsafe and need to be demolished in your life time. I don't know if people are pricing this consideration. It also means there will be pretty much nothing left of our architecture, all those appartments, offices, museums, brid…
European acquaintances often poke fun at our North American wood frame construction, noting their concrete houses are stronger and "will last for centuries." Are they wrong? I know there are a lot of stone buildings that had excellent longevity but those are made of large stone blocks instead of reinforced concrete. And that's just walls, floors in old houses are usually spanned by wood beams (there goes the wood aga…
Re: Experts revive ancient techniques to make concrete more sustainable
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
The oldest buildings in the world[0] are as old as they are because they use materials with lifespans of much less than 100 years. Instead they make them modular. Make it so that you can take out parts of the building to replace them without collapsing the whole thing. Instead we build our buildings in such a way that makes maintenance very hard and costly. We prefer to pretend like our buildings will last forever ra…
> The oldest buildings in the world[0] are as old as they are because they use materials with lifespans of much less than 100 years. Rather apropos counter-example: Rome's Pantheon is several hundred years older and built in part of concrete.
Re: Experts revive ancient techniques to make concrete more sustainable
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
The ancient Roman concrete was very different from modern: it was more thick, could not ne poured etc. But more importantly, it had no rebar, which is the main thing that corrodes over time. Ancient buildings could use molten lead to join together pieces of stone, but steel could not be made in the volume needed for reinforced structures.
Thing is we can use rebar in concrete for indefinately long use if we plan ahead, use sacrificial annodes to stave off corrosion or use stainless steel or use carbonfiber rebar as they won't rust. Hell using a polymer coating on rebar can prevent moisture contacting the surface of steel and rusting but that would require added cost and care when preping to prevent the polymer from being damaged prior to being embedde…
Re: Experts revive ancient techniques to make concrete more sustainable
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the problem with aluminium? I would always build structures out of aluminium if aluminium would be strong enough. It has extreme corrosion resistance, it's cheap, it's easy to handle, you can easily make almost any imaginable shape with it, you can cheaply reuse it, it's very light.
Aluminiums corrosion resistance is mostly myth so.
Re: Experts revive ancient techniques to make concrete more sustainable
#57I was a bit shocked when I learned that reinforced concrete only has a lifespan of about 100 years. That means that if you buy a condo in a building built in the 1970s, the building will become unsafe and need to be demolished in your life time. I don't know if people are pricing this consideration. It also means there will be pretty much nothing left of our architecture, all those appartments, offices, museums, brid…
As a structural engineer, I can tell you this is not correct as a general rule, but is true for structures subject to chlorides, especially marine structures like bridge piers.
One of my now-retired professors at the University of South Florida studied concrete durability for FDOT. He told me FDOT is now using a 100-year design basis for bridges. The concrete materials and additives have gotten quite good over the past 2 decades. We are learning a lot and still improving our concrete.
The key is to make a tortuous path for the chloride ions so it takes them decades to build up enough to overcome the passive film at the steel-concrete interface. The high pH of the concrete matrix causes this passive film, and it takes either acidification or chlorides to defeat it. Concrete bridge decks and roads in cold regions that use deicing salts are also damaged by chlorides.
Reinforced concrete protected from the weather in buildings would not have a 100-year lifespan forecast. If the building is properly maintained, the concrete should last much, much longer than that. I say "properly maintained", because of the Surfside Condo collapse in Florida. There a leaking plaza deck, lack of maintenance, and design flaws (columns too skinny) led to a tragic collapse of a building.
Re: Experts revive ancient techniques to make concrete more sustainable
#58> "For centuries, builders tried to cut costs by limiting how much cement they used and incorporating recycled waste materials into their concrete," says Salvatore Aprea, head of the Acm research group. "The challenge now is to revive these old methods—not for financial reasons but for the sake of our planet." I put it to you that if it was financially viable and simple ("ancient methods"), it would already be done.…
The article is about increasing sustainability, not financial viability.
Re: Experts revive ancient techniques to make concrete more sustainable
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
> reinforced concrete only has a lifespan of about 100 years. Currently, less than 1% of rebar is made from stainless steel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn9SzyDhfj8&t=140s
Stainless steel contains a necessary 12% (often more, usually 18%) chromium, which is relatively scarce from a building materials perspective. Already 85% of available chromium is used for stainless steel; many other metals are primarily supplied as byproducts of chromium extraction because of the extensive efforts [1, 2] made to locate and exploit deposits. In fact, total rebar production is roughly the same scale (…
At 43:51 in the video, he claims that an outer layer of stainless steel rebar is sufficient to protect the interior, so the goal is not 100% stainless.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_elements_in_Earth... says chromium is slightly more abundant than copper.
Re: Experts revive ancient techniques to make concrete more sustainable
#60I was a bit shocked when I learned that reinforced concrete only has a lifespan of about 100 years. That means that if you buy a condo in a building built in the 1970s, the building will become unsafe and need to be demolished in your life time. I don't know if people are pricing this consideration. It also means there will be pretty much nothing left of our architecture, all those appartments, offices, museums, brid…
> reinforced concrete only has a lifespan of about 100 years. Currently, less than 1% of rebar is made from stainless steel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn9SzyDhfj8&t=140s
I occasionally buy stainless steel strut and a 10’ stick of 12ga 1-5/8” deep SS 316 strut is around $250. The same strut made of galvanized steel is around $40.