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Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

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Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#281

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

organsnyder wrote: post #261
matsemann wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is cultural. I've never ever left a voice message, and never will. I've also never received one, the few I get are robocallers not understanding no one picked up. If you want me to pick up, send an sms explaining what it's about.

A school nurse probably doesn't have SMS capabilities on their school phone, and might not be willing to share their private number (I certainly wouldn't in that position). I rarely leave voicemails, but I will when it's urgent.

A school nurse is certainly expected to leave a message with a callback number. There are hundreds of millions of ways to leave a callback number that isn't 1 specific number you want. But "leave nothing" obviously isn't an acceptable solution, and leaving a personal cell number as a callback is a more acceptable one.

tl;dr: leave message+number, how you do so is up to you

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#282

Post by dredmorbius »

troydavis wrote: post #29
jdanyow wrote: post #24

Would it be possible to build an app to automate all this?

Great question. I think the biggest challenge would be maintaining high-quality reports/complaints. Basically, preventing people from reporting things that they opted in to but are frustrated with (just because it's really easy to do). There's a chance that the reports would actually become worse (less actionable) if it was too easy or too automated. A small challenge is that the high-quality carrier lookup APIs char…

Much of this is already established knowledge and practice in the world of email. People report spam for communications that they don't wish to receive, and often reporting spam is vastly simpler than any other option.

I'd propose that absent specific legal processes contact occurs at the consent and discretion of the contacted. That's one of a number of principles I've been kicking around under the notion of "Communications Autonomy"[1]. There is no fundamental right to attention. As such, any communications system which doesn't provide the ability to manage contact attempts and communications is in violation of those principles, and more concretely, as the annoyance and/or risk factors outweigh advantages and benefits, people and organisations will defect from those systems in droves.

The telecoms industry has been openly expressing concern that trust in the phone network will be lost. And by "phone network" I'm speaking broadly: POTS (plain old telephone service) and PSTN (public switched telephone networks), or any universal direct-access communications system.[2] I think we're seeing that breakdown. A key problem is that there isn't any single successor system that appears ready to step in, and most of the more likely proposed systems entail substantial concerns themselves over monopoly power and abuse, surveillance (state, capitalist, or other-actor varieties), etc.

I've got a few specific suggestions which I'm planning to make in a top-level comment to this thread.

________________________________

Notes:

1. See: https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/108579251632091173>, https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/107742445268072257>, and https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/622677903778013902fd00...>

2. Phone, email, SMS, social networking, postal mail, etc.

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#283

Post by [deleted] »

Forbo wrote: post #160
steelframe wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. How about we all try this? The next time anyone's in a meeting together talking about a production incident or quarterly planning or whatever, they're going to tell everyone else to STFU and wait while they take every random call they get on the off chance it's their kid's school trying to get through to them. Does that seem reasonable to you?

No, because it isn't reasonable. What would be reasonable is for the individual receiving the call to excuse themself leaving the rest of the meeting to carry on. Isn't this already the standard?

[deleted]

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#284

Post by tzs »

drawkward wrote: post #277

[flagged]

That's clearly wrong. For many technical and hobbyist publications the ads are one of the reasons people buy the publication. E.g., probably 80% of the time I bought an issue of "Computer Shopper" [1] it was to see the ads.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36206526

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#285

Post by nebula8804 »

furyg3 wrote: post #208
aimor wrote: post #81

I've been reporting spam calls and texts to the FCC for a few years now. Does it do anything? I don't know, certainly not immediately, and the problem persists. I tried the method spelled out here for my latest batch of "Your USPS package has arrived" texts, but the phone numbers (example: +63 936 631 6676) just give an "invalid number" response. Not unexpected. Every official channel seems to be failing us on this o…

Like others, I'm confused about how there's so much variation between countries on this one. In the US, the calls and texts are a plague. If you've had a phone number for a few years you're probably getting multiple texts and calls a day, even if you are on the Do Not Call registry, from advertisers of every type and scammers alike. Lots of people have apps for blocking spam and they still get through. In the Netherl…

This was many years ago but I was trying to set up a Twilio number in the Netherlands to do a crank call on a friend there. I thought it would be as straightforward as the US(ie. Just sign up, add some money and pick a number from their available pool). No....from what I recall you need to submit an actual physical address and there was some mechanism for verifying I think as it failed the first time I tried. Now I think I managed to eventually get some random shop registered but for spamming, I don't think that would last as it would get flagged eventually. I don't know if they still do this sort of verification but if anything it is probably more strict now.

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#286

Post by drawkward »

tzs wrote: post #284
drawkward wrote: post #277

[flagged]

That's clearly wrong. For many technical and hobbyist publications the ads are one of the reasons people buy the publication. E.g., probably 80% of the time I bought an issue of "Computer Shopper" [1] it was to see the ads. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36206526

If that is the reason someone is buying the publication, it's not an ad; it's the content.

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#287

Post by sentientslug »

letitbeirie wrote: post #280
efitz wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of us here grew up in the answering machine era where leaving a message was normal, expected behavior- when phones were not carried on your person.

Ironically back in the answering machine era you could screen your calls as they were coming in, short-circuiting this entire loop.

And what's old is new again, both Android and (newly) iPhone have live voicemail screening features!

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#288

Post by sentientslug »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #279
adhesive_wombat wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, you just forward the text to "7726" which is SPAM on a keypad. It's a requirement from the regulator. https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice...

In Norway it is an offence with penalties per infringing call to cold call anyone who has registered their number with the Brønnøysund registry more than 30 days ago (the equivalent of the Telephone Preference Service).

The US has the same thing for a very long time with the National Do Not Call registry: https://www.donotcall.gov/

The problem is that it's nearly impossible to enforce this. Would be curious to know if Norway has had any better luck.

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#289

Post by ghaff »

jaktet wrote: post #267
Bluestrike2 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but that's the world we live in now. If it's crazy, it's an inevitable sort of crazy. Get enough spam calls, and even if you know you might get a valid call from an unknown number, you'll find yourself treating them all as spam just the same. We really, really don't do well with repeated false alarms. It's how our brains operate, and the fact that the spam keeps on coming just reinforces it. If the call is leg…

Is there a word for describing becoming desensitized from false alarms? A similar situation is instead of a shared calendar for OOF status (at work) we are asked to send a calendar invite to our team and immediate team. My calendar is filled with “doctor appointment” invitations from people I don’t often interact with or need to know their in-office status. I started missing meetings and appointments because I was so…

I've heard alarm fatigue used. I think it originated in a healthcare context.

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#290

Post by organsnyder »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #281
organsnyder wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A school nurse probably doesn't have SMS capabilities on their school phone, and might not be willing to share their private number (I certainly wouldn't in that position). I rarely leave voicemails, but I will when it's urgent.

A school nurse is certainly expected to leave a message with a callback number. There are hundreds of millions of ways to leave a callback number that isn't 1 specific number you want. But "leave nothing" obviously isn't an acceptable solution, and leaving a personal cell number as a callback is a more acceptable one. tl;dr: leave message+number, how you do so is up to you

Absolutely. The person I was replying to said that voicemail was not a reasonable option. If the nurse needed to send an SMS their only option may be to use a personal device, and it isn't reasonable to expect educators and staff to provide personal contact information to parents.

The proper procedure is for the nurse to leave a voicemail with their school-provided contact number (either the school office or a way to dial them directly that isn't their personal number).

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