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A few words about Blameless culture

gybe.ca

21–30 of 52 posts

Re: A few words about Blameless culture

#21
post #8

On my part I avoid any feelgooderies, and one should have a case in court on why a mistake took place. Why it should not potentially affect compensations on progressions is beyond me. It might not as a singular event but but patterns of risky or disorganized behavior are commo rather than individual mistakes. Errors come in bulks but they might not express at the same time. In my experience there are people that do z…

But the blameless culture as highlighted in the article does not prevent to identify when someone messed up personally or is not doing effort to follow the process/bring the results. It means to start by assuming the best of intentions, and see how one can avoid repeating the same mistake in the future. See the example with the fire department in the article. Note that you bring in the example of a court, and this is…

One overlooked aspect in punnishing companies is that the workers getting the most done also cause the most bugs and trouble.

They are essentially filtering for the very same "C players" they despise and mock.

Like, the output disparity in bigger teams is extreme in programming if you let people loose. And you better not stick your head out in bad workplaces and the advice should be to do as little as possible to avoid being fired.

Re: A few words about Blameless culture

#23
This "blameful, not blameless" wording is a bit confusing to me. Are we blaming or not? "Blameful" isn't even a word, according to my web browser. The browser is showing red squiggles and so is my brain.

I think it'd be a little more potent to just say hey, there's a difference between saying someone is partially responsible for an issue, and pestering them about it (e.g. telling them they did a bad thing when they likely already know - I suspect that is what people want to avoid when they go "blameless"). Blame is blame, and disrespect is disrespect. I like to see them as orthogonal.

The article's fire suppression story doesn't even seem like a blame problem to me. It was a jumping to conclusions problem. But again, maybe I only think this because the definition of "blame" is being played with.

Re: A few words about Blameless culture

#24

How does blameless culture work with at will employment? It seems like there could be a real risk that a company's claims that they are blameless ends up being a trap.

IMO, it works just fine. (You can object to at-will nature of employment in general, but I don’t think this makes it particularly worse.)

Suppose employee E makes an error. Management decides to fire them or not. Firing someone for one error (of an accidental, non-malicious variety) makes no sense whatsoever.

The set of companies who do fire for a single accidental error is vanishingly small and very likely the least desirable of employers (as they’re likely making other colossally bad decisions as well).

If you’re working for a sane employer, at-will’s overlay with blameless transparency is fine. If you’re working for a terrible employer, you want to change that anyway.

A sane employer could decide to act on a repeated, long-established pattern of errors, which is frankly good for the organization and the remaining employees. In that case, the transparency around “most everyone’s error rate is a couple per year, while Pat’s error rate is 4 per week for the last 3 months; it’s time to part ways with Pat” is helpful.

Re: A few words about Blameless culture

#25
I did not know that arctic wolf had a blameless culture. In fact, I had the opposite expectation. The wolf usually represents a solo or selfish kind of thing. Which is technically not accurate to real wolf packs, but pop culture misleads about this.

I did know arctic wolf was big about being friendly to Trans and Autistic people, which I did like.

For me, long ago I was busy enough at work, I embraced blamelessness because I don't have time to waste on that crap. I immediately ended up with results where people who were expecting blame and didnt receive it were suddenly willing to get better. I learnt almost counter-intuitively or unexpectedly that you must have a blameless culture. Been blameless for at least a decade.

Props to arctic wolf, and well my current employer who is awesome.

Re: A few words about Blameless culture

#26

This "blameful, not blameless" wording is a bit confusing to me. Are we blaming or not? "Blameful" isn't even a word, according to my web browser. The browser is showing red squiggles and so is my brain. I think it'd be a little more potent to just say hey, there's a difference between saying someone is partially responsible for an issue, and pestering them about it (e.g. telling them they did a bad thing when they l…

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/blameful

Re: A few words about Blameless culture

#27

> He very likely has no idea how much impact he had on my career, but I’m very thankful for his patience with me that day. There have been many folks like this, in my career. I am humbled and grateful. I worked for a Japanese corporation, where they didn't "blame," per se , but did figure out if someone was Responsible. If so, that someone was expected to cop to it, and the team would then close ranks, and fix the is…

I do sometimes wonder if the (American) culture of blamelessness has led to a general lack of a feeling of responsibility among software engineers, leading to general carelessness. The idea of responsibility that becomes opaque as you move up the hierarchy sounds good, but I also expect that also has a lot to do with Japanese culture.

> I do sometimes wonder if the (American) culture of blamelessness has led to a general lack of a feeling of responsibility among software engineers, leading to general carelessness.

I don't think there's some general "(American) culture of blamelessness," and I think your comment might misunderstand the point of it.

My understanding about "blameless culture" is it's all about avoiding counterproductive things like scapegoating, blame-shifting, defensiveness, etc. Removing those things encourages the full cooperation of the team in resolving the issue, by removing the anxiety of punishment for being the guy who's being blamed. Everyone's supposed to take responsibility.

Re: A few words about Blameless culture

#28

I like the article and I have been promoting a blameless culture for most of my career. To respond rapidly to failings, we need transparency about what has happened. The same is required to ensure it doesn't happen again. I have seen a lot of incidents and I cannot think of one where a single person was to blame. Sure, one person ran a command or made a bad commit. However, someone else granted them access, someone t…

I've not heard of the idea of blameless culture, so I enjoyed reading this from that angle.

One of my worst and most consequential work experiences was with the opposite type of culture.

There's lots to be said about it, but in reflecting on things I've often felt like one of the worst parts of that type of culture ( "blameful"?) was a profound lack of trust, a feeling that the blame belied some lack of real interest in improving the situation, as opposed to being punitive against certain individuals for unrelated reasons. That is, the individuals who were targets of the most blame as far as I could tell were generally being targeted for cliquey reasons that had nothing to do with performance or anything of that sort. Conversely, people in the "in group" were given a free pass for all sorts of serious problems. Getting a free pass wasn't really the problem, it was a sense that blame wasn't really about the ostensible blameworthy act, it was that it was being meted out as a kind of superficial leverage for some other thing.

Also, because of these types of issues, serious, legitimate administrative, communication, and other systemic problems never got addressed, because the blame was being used as a kind of social ostracizing mechanism, and the actual underlying problems weren't fixed in their entirety. So in many ways a lot of the problems got worse, not better.

In contrasts, in other environments (even the same place at a different point in time) where there's an emphasis on problem solving and figuring out what could be done differently by everyone, and assuming the best intentions and basic competence, trust underlies everything. You're motivated more because you believe that actions have fair consequences, and that everyone has each other's best interests in mind.

Re: A few words about Blameless culture

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the blameless culture as highlighted in the article does not prevent to identify when someone messed up personally or is not doing effort to follow the process/bring the results. It means to start by assuming the best of intentions, and see how one can avoid repeating the same mistake in the future. See the example with the fire department in the article. Note that you bring in the example of a court, and this is…

One overlooked aspect in punnishing companies is that the workers getting the most done also cause the most bugs and trouble. They are essentially filtering for the very same "C players" they despise and mock. Like, the output disparity in bigger teams is extreme in programming if you let people loose. And you better not stick your head out in bad workplaces and the advice should be to do as little as possible to avo…

but what does 'done' mean here?

quality is a thing and forward movement with quality is possible.

Re: A few words about Blameless culture

#30
I think the key for me when it comes to blameless culture is humility.

For me and the teams I'm on I try to instill an attitude of humility that at its core says "Any of us on any given day have the possibility of making mistakes."

Mistakes happen. Anyone can make one. Finger pointing is usually a sign of either overconfidence ("I would never be that dumb!") or insecurity ("I need this person to take the heat so I look better.").

To me that's what is important in blameless culture. It encourages people to approach things in a humble manner, which in my experience leads to better outcomes.

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