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DIY Home EV Charger

jamesfotherby.com

151–160 of 195 posts

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#151
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used a granny charger for the first 3 weeks after getting my EV. I don't use the car that much but even so, the painfully slow charging made it a hassle. And also remember, if you want access to cheap electricity, you need to use a "real" EVSE. This DIY one can't provide access to that either.

>>And also remember, if you want access to cheap electricity, you need to use a "real" EVSE. Why? I was on Octopus Go for a long time, I'd just set the in-car timer to charge between 00:30 and 04:30, worked fine even with a 3-pin charger. It won't work with Intelligent Octopus, but it's by no means the only way to get cheap electricity. Not that it matters anyway, I kept a detailed log of our usage for months and con…

Presumably if someone drives enough that they need more than four (or whatever) hours of charging overnight, they will need a higher power charger to take advantage of the cheapest hours.

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#152
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know the whole setup, but the inspector is likely right. When you have a feeder to an outbuilding (or external structure or piece of equipment or subpanel or basically anything else), you supply it with the intentionally current-carrying wires and the ground. (Ground may be called “equipment grounding conductor” or “protective earth” or perhaps something else in your jurisdiction. It’s a wire or the metallic…

> you supply it with the intentionally current-carrying wires and the ground Whether you connect both grounds to both themselves and Earth, or just connect both grounds to Earth, or connect them to Earth once and connect them both depends on so many details, it's not funny. What is certain is that you don't want something that doubles as a lightning rod protected on the same internal circuit as your house. So your ra…

> Is it still a recommended practice on the US to rely on overcurrent protection to protect against current leakage? It's an horrible practice, as it requires several amperes of leakage before triggering.

Yes.

I don’t agree with it, personally — I think that there should be standard ground fault trip curves that are functions of circuit breaker rating such that they coordinate properly, and that they should be used at least on all circuits that extend outside of a building and really on most circuits, period. This would add costs, and it would detect and thus prevent a lot of dubious wiring practices and outright errors.

But you should still bond all your “ground wires” together so that even if these breakers fail to trip you have a degree of protection. (And breakers do fail.)

Under current NEC (the US code), when you supply a building with a feeder (i.e. from another building or similar structure), you must provide it with all the current carrying wires and separate ground, and you must ground it to the Earth.

In any case, if you live in a place where your utility supplies power above ground, and a utility pole or line is hit by lightning, its ground is most certainly solidly connected to your house. So you can’t really pretend that your house’s ground is connected only to the Earth near your house and that it won’t let lightning in.

Hmm, I wonder if you can take the ground wire running between two buildings and carefully insulate it and give it a wrap or three around a piece of steel to add some inductance and reduce lightning currents that might otherwise go through it. I’m not saying this is wise…

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you supply it with the intentionally current-carrying wires and the ground Whether you connect both grounds to both themselves and Earth, or just connect both grounds to Earth, or connect them to Earth once and connect them both depends on so many details, it's not funny. What is certain is that you don't want something that doubles as a lightning rod protected on the same internal circuit as your house. So your ra…

Indeed. We had proper ground fault protection breaks for that purpose, and it was really hard to get them. That + the use of metal tubing to carry electrical power as well as the incredibly flimsy construction of various sockets and such (as well as the high amperage) translates into lots of preventable fires each year in the USA and Canada. Point a FLIR at your average distribution panel and try not to be amazed at…

What’s wrong with metal tubing indoors?

Outside is another matter. Those galvanized steel tubes don’t last very long underground, and the results are terrifying. And nothing in the code requires ground fault protection upstream of a 120V circuit running through a corroded steel tube underground.

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’ll often find something on Amazon and if it seems like it’s from a small business, I’ll check to see if I can buy it direct. (Arguably, this behavior is unethical on my part against Amazon, but whatever.) According to whom? The people who think going to the bathroom during a TV commercial break is "stealing"? Since when is comparison-shopping unethical?

I don’t think comparison shopping is unethical; it’s what makes a market work. I do think “thank you for letting me know this product exists and meets my need, but if all else is equal to me, I’ll buy it somewhere else where you don’t benefit from the effort to help me address my need” is not the standard that I hold myself to generally. Further, I think many would object if I found a product through a small business…

A lot of people would "shop" at brick-n-mortar stores with a mobile comparing prices online. They would look at the physical item right then and there, but purchase from online. At least, that was the early days of online when people were still actually getting off their couches.

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>And also remember, if you want access to cheap electricity, you need to use a "real" EVSE. Why? I was on Octopus Go for a long time, I'd just set the in-car timer to charge between 00:30 and 04:30, worked fine even with a 3-pin charger. It won't work with Intelligent Octopus, but it's by no means the only way to get cheap electricity. Not that it matters anyway, I kept a detailed log of our usage for months and con…

Presumably if someone drives enough that they need more than four (or whatever) hours of charging overnight, they will need a higher power charger to take advantage of the cheapest hours.

Of course. I'm just saying that if our charger broke tomorrow I don't think I'd pay £900 for a new one, it's just too much money imho, but our personal situation works even with the slow 3 pin charging.

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#156
post #41
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH I’m less concerned about dangerousness… but the costs listed are so much, whereas commercial EVSEs are so cheap. You can buy a 40A 240V capable EVSE for like $200-300. The OP says they bought the cable for $120… why not just have the rest of it for a small additional cost?

It is surprising to see this question on HN. We regularly see Show HN projects that cost tens of thousands of dollars in time (assuming a typical software engineering hourly rate), but that aren't all that innovative compared to existing options. And we love those projects. Why would DIY effort outside the software domain be any different?

Software projects have portability; you spend X amount of time, and others can use your labor for free or nearly free.

In comparison, hardware projects have costs even if the 'hard work' is done: PCBs to buy, components to assemble, parts to purchase. Even BEST case here, and discounting peoples time, it looks like the cost of all the components listed would be in the neighborhood of $200. And that assumes you can source the same 'demo' cable that the OP purchased for the same cheap price. Realistically I bet actual costs would be $300+

I have nothing against DIY hardware projects, the problem is that hardware projects must pass a much higher bar: you have to be cost competitive at a minimum with existing products on the market, or you need to be better in some way (and, that way can be trivial, as long as it's interesting). This appears to be neither.

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think comparison shopping is unethical; it’s what makes a market work. I do think “thank you for letting me know this product exists and meets my need, but if all else is equal to me, I’ll buy it somewhere else where you don’t benefit from the effort to help me address my need” is not the standard that I hold myself to generally. Further, I think many would object if I found a product through a small business…

A lot of people would "shop" at brick-n-mortar stores with a mobile comparing prices online. They would look at the physical item right then and there, but purchase from online. At least, that was the early days of online when people were still actually getting off their couches.

I think price comparison is totally valid, even across channels. But if the online price is the same as brick/mortar, it seems only fair to buy it from the brick/mortar store if they provided you some knowledge/service that the online places did not.

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#158
post #4

Save you a click: It's an EVSE, not a charger. Looks very similar to OpenEVSE but he wrote his own code. Nice clean build. Not sure why the extra work instead of just downloading OpenEVSE.

I'd have called an EVSE a charger - I might be naive but what's the distinction you're trying to make?

The EVSE is a glorified RCD/GFCI cord with a contactor that turns on power, so the cord is dead until that happens. It also generates a signal that tells the car how much power it's allowed to draw; the EVSE is configured at install time to know what size breaker feeds it upstream, so it tells the car not to trip that breaker, but the EVSE has no means of actually enforcing such a limit. There's some basic negotiation between the EVSE and the car, to decide when the plug is inserted and it's OK to turn on the contactor.

The AC power passes straight through the EVSE, unaltered in voltage, current, or waveform. The EVSE may monitor the current to perform logging, and the EVSE is required to monitor the AC imbalance like any other RCD/GFCI does so it can open the contactor if there's a ground fault, but that's it. It's just a smart extension cord, basically.

The charger is in the car, and is the component that actually converts the AC from the grid to DC for the batteries. The charger is what has all the silicon (or these days, probably gallium nitride?), and the inductors and capacitors and stuff to actually transform the power from one form to another. It changes the voltage to match whatever the battery needs at the moment. It controls its own DC output to match the battery's needs, and it limits its own AC input according to the signal from the EVSE so it doesn't trip the upstream breaker.

The charger is also responsible for immediately turning itself off, reducing its input draw to zero, within a few milliseconds of someone pressing the latch of the EVSE connector handle. This indicates they're about to pull it out, and the contacts aren't designed to handle arcing, so the charger is required to drop its current _very_ quickly, allowing the contacts to be separated without creating an arc. That signal (called PP) is produced in the handle itself, there's just a tiny switch underneath the latch. The handle is technically part of the cord which is technically part of the EVSE, but the EVSE has no responsibilities related to the signal, that's all on the charger.

If the SAE hadn't mandated that the EVSE perform RCD functions, it could be replaced by a literal extension cord. Many small DIY EVs do precisely that; the charge cord is the exact same one you'd use to run any appliance. It works just fine. But even small DIY EVs have a real charger too, which converts the AC from the cord to DC for the batteries. The charger plugs into the cord, but the charger is not the cord.

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#159
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. We had proper ground fault protection breaks for that purpose, and it was really hard to get them. That + the use of metal tubing to carry electrical power as well as the incredibly flimsy construction of various sockets and such (as well as the high amperage) translates into lots of preventable fires each year in the USA and Canada. Point a FLIR at your average distribution panel and try not to be amazed at…

What’s wrong with metal tubing indoors? Outside is another matter. Those galvanized steel tubes don’t last very long underground, and the results are terrifying. And nothing in the code requires ground fault protection upstream of a 120V circuit running through a corroded steel tube underground.

They conduct electricity. Thus if you have a leak from one conductor somewhere in your house (that without ground fault protection goes undetected almost every case) and gets a different one from a different wire, you now have a constant-on heater passing through God knows where, ready to start fires.

A single leak also gives you a minor risk of electrocution. But the fire hazard is the important one.

Re: DIY Home EV Charger

#160
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> would nullify my homeowners insurance What is up with this common refrain? One of the main functions of insurance is to indemnify you against your own negligence. Let's say you turn a small stovetop fire into a house fire by trying to put it out with water - the insurance company doesn't just get to stiff you because you were responsible for causing the problem. Are there actually prevalent and enforceable weasel c…

>What is up with this common refrain? It's reality? Installing an L2 charger requires a permit. You don't technically have to get one, there's no county police that goes door to door checking for improper/horrible EV charging installations. However, if your house burns down, and they see you decided to jury rig your own charger from piece parts, I can guarantee you with 100% confidence they're going to tell you to po…

How's that? Does plugging in a fridge require a permit? As long as the EVSE is plugged into an outlet like any other appliance, it's just an appliance. Your jurisdiction may require a permit for installing the outlet in the first place, but I've never heard of one where plugging an appliance into the outlet does.

Anyway, how many DIY EVSEs start fires? It's a glorified extension cord, not exactly rocket science, and as long as the builder applies a modicum of sense to choosing the components and wire gauges inside, and torques the connectors and stuff, there's really not much going on in there that should produce heat in the first place.

Also, this isn't a charger. It's an EVSE, there's no power electronics inside. There's a contactor, that's it, no silicon in the power path. It's really hard to screw it up.

Perhaps I'm just accustomed to the Hackaday comment section, but HN commenters are weirdly terrified of anything involving AC. It's just electricity. Not even very much of it, like, normal household levels of 240v AC. My clothes dryer uses more power, and it pulls it over wiring installed in the 1970's. Heck, when I moved, I even replaced the cord on my own dryer with one that matches the outlet in this house, an action explicitly allowed and encouraged by the access plate on the back of the appliance. The bare cords are sold at Home Depot and they come with a little slip of paper explaining how any homeowner can install them.

It's fine. It's just wire. Pick one that's thick enough, torque the screws, it's fine.

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