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Paper vs. devices: Brain activation differences during memory retrieval (2021)

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Re: Paper vs. devices: Brain activation differences during memory retrieval (2021)

#21

Post by shinycode »

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #15

I think it would be interesting to see a study on memory retrieval for completing software projects with a dumb text editor with nothing enabled, an IDE, and an IDE with copilot enabled.

I might also depends for how long the developer has been using the tool. At university we first learned to program with pen and paper to develop memory and thinking habits before doing everything by hand with only vim and after that using and IDE after +6 months to let the habits develop. Maybe if a developper starts learning straight with copilot, some habits will never form and things will never go into long term memory ?

Re: Paper vs. devices: Brain activation differences during memory retrieval (2021)

#22

Post by Buttons840 »

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #15

I think it would be interesting to see a study on memory retrieval for completing software projects with a dumb text editor with nothing enabled, an IDE, and an IDE with copilot enabled.

I learned to program using Python with Geany, no autocomplete, every single letter typed by my fingers; no auto-format either. I was doing some consulting (I got a cheap consulting gig as my first job) and wrote a daemon in Python, which ran for about a year, then hit an edge case where I had misspelled a variable. -_- After that it ran for several years, 24/7, no problem.

Now to my point: I learned Python far better than any other language I've ever used, I think because it was the first language I used seriously, but maybe it was because I never used auto-complete in those early days?

Re: Paper vs. devices: Brain activation differences during memory retrieval (2021)

#23

Post by ezequiel-garzon »

keiferski wrote: post #12

This study appears to focus on short term memory, but for my money, long-term memory is much more significant. As such, it would have been useful to add a third option: using a SRS system like Anki. I imagine it would significantly outcompete both hand-written notes and digital tablet notes. A bit like the famous Steve Jobs example comparing a human, a condor, and a human with a bicycle. The condor (hand-writing) may…

What's an SRS system?

Re: Paper vs. devices: Brain activation differences during memory retrieval (2021)

#24

Post by suriyaG »

ezequiel-garzon wrote: post #23
keiferski wrote: post #12

This study appears to focus on short term memory, but for my money, long-term memory is much more significant. As such, it would have been useful to add a third option: using a SRS system like Anki. I imagine it would significantly outcompete both hand-written notes and digital tablet notes. A bit like the famous Steve Jobs example comparing a human, a condor, and a human with a bicycle. The condor (hand-writing) may…

What's an SRS system?

I think it is Space Repetition Software/System

Re: Paper vs. devices: Brain activation differences during memory retrieval (2021)

#25

Post by falling_myshkin »

keiferski wrote: post #12

This study appears to focus on short term memory, but for my money, long-term memory is much more significant. As such, it would have been useful to add a third option: using a SRS system like Anki. I imagine it would significantly outcompete both hand-written notes and digital tablet notes. A bit like the famous Steve Jobs example comparing a human, a condor, and a human with a bicycle. The condor (hand-writing) may…

I don't understand your simile. The limitations of a bicycle are infrastructure: bicycles can go a lot of places very efficiently, but rugged mountain terrain without trails (precisely the place condors thrive) would be difficult to traverse. (this is totally off topic but now i am curious about the energy efficiency of condor flight vs bicycle travel in ideal conditions)

i find SRS very useful. but i personally think it is not well suited to reference information. i'm skeptical of putting all my appointments in SRS for example (maybe birthdays would be worth it). or say I had collected a bunch of papers related to a topic I was very interested in. I don't necessarily think I'd want to memorize the list of them via SRS, but having the titles written somewhere for reference would be great. I think the point of this paper is that if that 'somewhere' is an SRS card, it is almost completely devoid of context (other than 'studying flashcards on computer' context), but if that somewhere is a notebook that contains lists of papers related to all the topics i'm interested in, it's much easier to find. (though computers are good at searching fast)

Re: Paper vs. devices: Brain activation differences during memory retrieval (2021)

#26

Post by apienx »

I tend to write with more intent when using paper because I know that editing is not really possible. Accessibility is also much more limited on paper. However, I think of my devices and PKM software as a second brain where I just offload information knowing it can be accessed anywhere and anytime.

P.S. From TokyoU’s Department of Basic Science (in an allegedly predatory journal).

Re: Paper vs. devices: Brain activation differences during memory retrieval (2021)

#27

Post by fermiNitambh »

ezequiel-garzon wrote: post #23
keiferski wrote: post #12

This study appears to focus on short term memory, but for my money, long-term memory is much more significant. As such, it would have been useful to add a third option: using a SRS system like Anki. I imagine it would significantly outcompete both hand-written notes and digital tablet notes. A bit like the famous Steve Jobs example comparing a human, a condor, and a human with a bicycle. The condor (hand-writing) may…

What's an SRS system?

Spaced Repetition Software.

Re: Paper vs. devices: Brain activation differences during memory retrieval (2021)

#28

Post by tgv »

keiferski wrote: post #12

This study appears to focus on short term memory, but for my money, long-term memory is much more significant. As such, it would have been useful to add a third option: using a SRS system like Anki. I imagine it would significantly outcompete both hand-written notes and digital tablet notes. A bit like the famous Steve Jobs example comparing a human, a condor, and a human with a bicycle. The condor (hand-writing) may…

One hour isn't really short-term memory, at least not in the usual sense, and short-term memory is definitely needed to form long-term memories.

Spaced repetition is an entirely different dimension. It doesn't fit between the three mentioned modes. You don't get spaced repetition when e.g. attending class or reading a chapter. Instead, you make notes. That's what this study is for, and anything else is a distraction.

Re: Paper vs. devices: Brain activation differences during memory retrieval (2021)

#29

Post by falling_myshkin »

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #15

I think it would be interesting to see a study on memory retrieval for completing software projects with a dumb text editor with nothing enabled, an IDE, and an IDE with copilot enabled.

i don't like _auto_complete, i find that the nondeterminstic text changes on the screen are pretty distracting. however, I do really like quick lookup of relevant names at my own will from the editor. this is possible with even e.g. ed and ctags.

i'd wager nearly every development environment is integrated to some extent, piping output in the unix shell is integrating.

Re: Paper vs. devices: Brain activation differences during memory retrieval (2021)

#30

Post by ngrilly »

wodenokoto wrote: post #16
ngrilly wrote: post #7

Anyone here did see an improvement in memory retrieval after switching from taking notes by typing on their computer to taking notes on something like Remarkable?

I think the kind of notes you can take with pen and paper beats what you can reasonably do with a keyboard. And I think some of the diagrams and annotated equations you can easily write on paper creates a much better learning experience. But computer notes are much easier to search. So for things like meeting minutes, and daily todos etc, write it in a .txt file. But when following along a deep learning course, write…

I thought devices like Remarkable were doing automatic OCR to enable search across notes?

Assuming search works, then I’d say a big advantage of pen and paper is being less constrained in the layout of your notes, and for example do diagrams. Big disadvantage is not being able to edit, for example restructure your notes by moving things around.

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