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I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

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Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#601

This would probably be illegal in the UK.

In the UK you can be fired for any or no reason, except a specifically illegal reason, until you have 2 years of service. It's like at-will employment but with a notice period. https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/what-to-do-if-youre-dismissed#:...

Given they worked for Amazon for several years, I assume they would no longer fall in that category. At which point some of what they allege happened would probably fall under constructive dismissal.

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#602

Many years ago, when I worked in high finance, it was common knowledge that 3-5% of the staff would be fired every 1-2 years, all at once. This created a lot of tension every time rumours swirled that the "culling" was coming up. But, when you were fired, you were simply given a phone call, out of the blue one day, told to come to an office, and then offered a severance package based on your years of service, and esc…

If you are put on a PIP, at least you have some time to start looking for a new job. The takeaway seems to be, one on a PIP, put all your effort into finding the next job rather than trying to keep your current one.

Do you know what severance is?

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So what’s the difference between changing jobs when you do have a choice and waiting until you don’t have a choice?" The difference is that if I lost this job I would then have time during the day to look for jobs or study when I would have been working. I don't really care what will happen. My area is shitty for tech work, my wife won't move, and I'm ill suited to remote work. I'm just coasting now. There's no poin…

That’s not how it works. Given a choice between hiring someone who learned on the side with no real world experience and hiring someone with real world experience - the latter wins. That’s why you do volunteer for opportunities where you can up skill on the job and while you are still employed you find another job where you can get in based on what you know and then transition

"Given a choice between hiring someone who learned on the side with no real world experience and hiring someone with real world experience - the latter wins."

Lol so I'm in a catch 22 and your precious advice does not apply.

"That’s why you do volunteer for opportunities where you can up skill on the job"

That's not how my org works.

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#604
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had never thought of it that way, but you're right— firing is immediate but employees always feel the obligation to stick around for two weeks. It tends to be a weird two weeks too. If you know you're quitting you're usually already preparing for it prior— taking less responsibility, finding who to hand projects to, etc. In my experience at times it's just two uncomfortable weeks of showing up and doing nothing.

yes, showing up and doing nothing and getting paid for it. imo worse deal for the company than the employee but gives company opportunity for project handoffs.

I'm sure if it was actually meaningfully bad for the company it wouldn't be so common. The company could just make the employee to leave immediately.

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is completely nit-picky, as others have said, both methods have pluses/minuses, so how does the interviewer know the internal preference of the hiring company? Unless the question was specifically "how would you do this lookup if you have Dirty data". Then maybe missing using a default value is something. But even then, maybe you hit an invalid value, you should fail, or if you are providing defaults then there sh…

That’s not nit picky. One throws a fucking exception.

Whether it's better to throw an exception or end up with None is what's unclear. Either can be better depending on the situation.

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a discussion about worker pay. Salary is the metric.

I'd say PPE is. Getting paid 5k to spend 4k on rent is pretty similar to getting paid 2k and spending 1k on rent (all else being equal).

> PPE

Personal protective equipment?

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#608

> But I had a huge stock investment coming up. So there was no way I was going to rock the boat in any way, shape, or form just trying to get to this date. So the employer has a financial inventive program to encourage people to stay in the organization long term, and some hyper-rational VP repurposes that reward as a kind of tenure cliff forcing people out just ahead of it? All the pieces are in the article, just wa…

Amazon's stock vesting schedule is 5% - 15% - 40% - 40%, so you're not new anymore by the time you reach any significant number of stocks vesting.

If this isn't an open admission that it's such a shitty place to work, that they have to withold your pay to trap you there once you work it out for yourself, I don't know what is.

Places that provide good working environments don't need to trap their employees into staying.

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#609

One underlying problem with these PIP type programs at FAANG seems to be that they have very high barriers to entry in the interview process, and then act like 30% of the company is underperforming and subject to an annual 6% cull. There are industries & companies that have grown fat & lazy and could use a few annual 6% culls, but you eventually run out of fat. If you have a very competitive interview process and hig…

If I wanted to buy 50 of the best microwave ovens possible, and I could not buy 2 of the same model, I might do this:

1. Carefully review and test 500 models.

2. Buy what seems to be the best 55.

3. Rank what you have, and return the worst 10 out of 55.

4. Repeat careful reviewing of other possible models.

5. Buy another 10 microwave ovens.

6. GOTO step three.

I thought that constantly hiring and firing was common practice. It also puts e.oyees under stress. Maybe it started at GE?

I do not like it, but I can see the sociopathic boss' point of view.

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#610

I'm sorry, but this is why FAANG are such trash companies that can't achieve anything of substance. Their employees are too busy playing games to get anything done. This practice is like setting up a museum with priceless artifacts and explicitly saying to the night watchman "if you can get away with stealing from us you can have it, also you're probably going to get fired next quarter" In any normal sized business t…

Let’s be honest here. To say that FAANG hasn’t achieved anything is demonstrably false

When was the last time nextflix did anything interesting other than media production?

When was the last time Google created a product they were so proud of they kept it around?

When was the last time Facebook built anything they didn't just buy?

What was the last thing Amazon did that wasbnt just more vertical integration?

Apple is the only company who recently did anything noteworthy and that was just they decided to build a CPU for an architecture they licensed.

I know these guys move a lot of deck chairs, but they used to actually do stuff.

Now they just buy other companies that do stuff.

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