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Turbo Pascal Turns 40

blog.marcocantu.com

261–270 of 271 posts

Re: Turbo Pascal Turns 40

#261
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My uni had two micros halls, one with 5.0, the other with 5.5. What's the difference? I asked. It turns out the 5.5 had some new shit called "Object Oriented Programming"... and a Breakout clone to illustrate the paradigm. At some moment Borland released, free as in beer, the 3 and 5 versions. Binaries should be out there somewhere for those curious. I'm sure young people would be surprised to see what 5.5 provided.…

Ha, thanks for refreshing my memory that it was 5.5 that added OOP! I started with 4.0, so that's my baseline. Then 5.0 added overlays (IIRC) and 6.0 introduced Turbo Vision, which was a kind of magic to me :). It's interesting how a _programming language/IDE_ can bring such warm feelings.

Overlays were already included in version 3.0.

Re: Turbo Pascal Turns 40

#262
post #85

A-HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! YOU ARE NEXT

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Turbo Pascal Turns 40

#263
post #254

There's one thing I don't understand. Whenever TP or Delphi get brought up, people wax nostalgic about how amazing they were, and that they are actually unmatched to this day in certain aspects. I know the adoption of both got hurt by Borland's and Embarcadero's corporate shenanigans. However, FreePascal and Lazarus are reportedly just as good as Borland's products, but without the business issues. Despite that, they…

FreePascal is pretty good but could be better with more manpower; Lazarus never was as good as Delphi GUI-wise, and hasn't been updated for modern GUI toolkits, so (unfortunately) it's almost obsolete by now.

> Lazarus never was as good as Delphi GUI-wise

What do you mean? I've been using Lazarus for many years and i used Delphi 2 and 7 before that (mainly 2 though) and i find Lazarus to be an improvement over these versions (AFAIK Delphi 7 was incredibly popular - among Delphi developers anyway - to the point where it was offered for years after newer versions were made).

IMO the main reason is simply that Pascal has lost its "cool" status - and also there is a ton of misinformation out there about it (i even still see people mentioning Kernighan's article on Pascal about why it isn't good, which not only isn't valid anymore -aside from a couple of cosmetic differences- it also wasn't valid in the 90s or really even when he wrote it - though in his defense he was referring to Standard Pascal, but that hasn't been relevant for literal decades).

> and hasn't been updated for modern GUI toolkits, so (unfortunately) it's almost obsolete by now.

Lazarus is a fully volunteer-developed project, so people work on what they want. If you want support for a modern GUI toolkit you basically need to do it yourself (the maintainers are very accepting of external contributors).

Though chances are your info is a bit out of date. As of right now (i use the trunk version since i contribute to Lazarus, though my contributions are certainly on the "old GUI toolkits" side) there is support for Qt6 (which is modern enough in my book :-P) which seems to be at a decent state. Here[0] is an image with Lazarus compiled using the Qt6 backend with a small 3D model viewer i wrote - running Lazarus itself is a litmus test for a backend as the IDE is quite complex.

Of course the neat bit with Lazarus is that you can also use any other toolkit that is supported - in the same image you can see the same exact model viewer running with the Gtk1 backend :-P

[0] https://i.imgur.com/NE2LB3U.png

Re: Turbo Pascal Turns 40

#264
post #194

For all who wonder why Turbo Pascal was so fast here some insights: 50% is certainly due to the language Pascal itself. Niklaus Wirth designed the language in a way so it can be compiled in a single pass. In general the design of Pascal is in my opinion truly elegant and compared to other programming languages completely underrated. Wirth published a tiny version of his compiler written in Pascal itself in a 1976 boo…

> meaning no local variables (still heavy usage of push/pop within a procedure, does this count as a local?)

Isn't it (push/pop) how locals basically work?

Re: Turbo Pascal Turns 40

#265
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fully-featured GUI program when today similarly powerful software is orders of magnitude larger in size? That's because the "fully featured" of the 90s would be barely usable today. Or to rephrase: the frameworks and programs of today are not "similarly powerful" to the ones from the mid 90s, even if you just recompiled the app from 25 years ago with the current version of your framework (theoretically ;), it would…

> That's because the "fully featured" of the 90s would be barely usable today. Saying that in a thread about TurboPascal is strange. I mean notepad needs about 5 seconds to start on my windows 10 work computer. And the usability of windows 10 is ... not.

Yeah, if one is talking about user-hostile UI, Turbo Vision apps are not, certainly not compared to some of today's stuff.

Re: Turbo Pascal Turns 40

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~20. The Euro (or "Teuro", as it was often called in Germany at the time) was introduced in... Uh, 2000 or 2001, thereabouts.

Ok. I googled and it said ~1.9. I seem to remember it being the late 90s so that's my bad memory. Funny, we also call it t'euro in Yorkshire too!

Yeah, sure, about two DM to the Euro. 20 years, I meant, not 30.

Betcha it doesn't mean the same in Yorkshire as in German, though: "Teuro" comes from Ger. "Teuer", expensive. (Cognate of Eng. "dear", as in "paid dearly".) Because wages halved, numerically, while many claimed prices were about the same in Euro after the change as they'd been in DM before it. Or, if not the same, still way above half, as they "should" have been for wage/price-parity to remain the same.

Re: Turbo Pascal Turns 40

#267

I started with TP 3.0 in high school. It compiled faster than any other Pascal. It uses the WordStar editor. My teacher called it the cat's pajamas.

Hi Norm, hope everything is well with you.

All is well. How are you doing? I'm thinking of skipping Windows 11 and going to Debian or Ubuntu. My PIII problem was that the CD-ROM drive was not supported by Linux, so I had to buy a Sony drive.

I got Ubuntu on a laptop and Virtual Box on my Windows 10 PC. I am slowly getting better with it. All I had to do was avoid IWETHEY and investigate on my own.

Re: Turbo Pascal Turns 40

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha, thanks for refreshing my memory that it was 5.5 that added OOP! I started with 4.0, so that's my baseline. Then 5.0 added overlays (IIRC) and 6.0 introduced Turbo Vision, which was a kind of magic to me :). It's interesting how a _programming language/IDE_ can bring such warm feelings.

Overlays were already included in version 3.0.

Yeah, for some reason I thought it was 5.0.

Do you remember if there was any major language feature added in 5.0? I couldn't quickly find anything concrete..

Re: Turbo Pascal Turns 40

#269

I started with TP 3.0 in high school. It compiled faster than any other Pascal. It uses the WordStar editor. My teacher called it the cat's pajamas.

Hi Norm, hope everything is well with you.

Here is a Turbo Pascal 3.0 Autoexe Password program I wrote in 1985: https://github.com/generalram/TurboPascalDOSPassword

I'd like to get into Free Pascal and Lazarus but I am also trying to get into so many other things like Python. I worked with Procasti to do this forum software: https://github.com/orionblastar/K666 But I forgot what I learned due to my medicine and mental illness which causes a disability.

I've come a long way, but needed a break to get sane again.

Re: Turbo Pascal Turns 40

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overlays were already included in version 3.0.

Yeah, for some reason I thought it was 5.0. Do you remember if there was any major language feature added in 5.0? I couldn't quickly find anything concrete..

Sorry, I don't remember, but I found the manuals! https://bitsavers.org/pdf/borland/turbo_pascal/
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