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No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

theregister.com

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Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#21

Post by rtpg »

School-Cotton wrote: post #14
tomohawk wrote: post #4

How about passing a law explicitly covering the kind of information being collected and sold as actually being private, and against the law to share with anyone without a warrant?

The NSA doesn’t follow the law, so why would that matter?

People say this but probably underestimate how much the NSA at least pretends to follow the letter of the law compared to intelligence services in almost any other nation on the planet.

Them following the law is entirely downstream from Congress doing things like what Wyden is doing. Their existence is predicated on congressional satisfaction, and many congresspeople are at least fellow travellers to the practical frustrations many people on this site have with the NSA. It's never enough, but it's _something_.

Meanwhile plenty of countries just have their intelligence services tucked away, out of the spotlight, and with barely any legal framework to bind them.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#22

Post by cm2187 »

phkahler wrote: post #20
cm2187 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence agencies' very role is to break laws.

To the extent that maybe it is, it should be other countries laws. Nobody has the authority to grant such law breaking permission (without a warrant). When you break the rules establishing a system, you no longer have that system, but a free for all. The US constitution in particular aims to protect the people from government overreach. See the original amendments and read them in that light.

Even from a pure legalistic point of view, US laws have extraordinary extra territorial reach. I believe if a bribe occurs between two foreigners in a foreign country, the mere fact that they used USD for payment brings it within US jurisdiction. And certainly if a US citizen is involved.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#24

Post by bilekas »

user3939382 wrote: post #23

I’d be surprised if they’re “buying browsing data” instead of just having a tap on all major ISPs and siphoning everything off directly, or compelling ISPs to do this with NSLs.

This. There is no need to purchase data, and also maybe a loophole legally when there is no need for a warrant when the traffic is passing through.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#25

Post by sgift »

> This won't guarantee answers, however. It does mean the NSA will either need to satisfy Wyden's request, or Congress will need to hold a procedural vote to push through the confirmation.

So, the most probable outcome is that this will delay the process for a few weeks at most until congress just pushes it through. At least it shines a bit light on the whole charade. Not that it makes much of a difference for me, since I'm not an US citizen, but imho the easiest and best solution would be to stop private companies from gobbling up and selling private data. But that would mean going against companies and we can't have that now, can we?

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#27

Post by 9dev »

cm2187 wrote: post #19
9dev wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An intelligence agency’s role is gathering intelligence on malevolent entities that threaten a country in some way. Not more, not less—but their role certainly isn’t breaking laws per se, or amassing data on the general public to engage in pre-policing. No matter how much certain parties may advocate for that, a democracy cannot exist in a surveillance state, and anyone convinced of that has lost democratic legitimac…

They equally gather information on friendly democracies, bribe or blackmail people, hack computers, they are involved in trade negotiations, watch what all the parties are doing in civil wars, etc. It's not a good guys vs bad guys, good vs evil thing. They are a limited exception to democratic governments abiding to the rule of law. They are hired thugs, "our thugs". And I am not disputing that they are necessary. Ju…

What is considered malevolent is obviously dependent on the perspective, but we cannot accept agencies without any oversight or control, that will always lead to a shadow government. Which leads me to my point: we need to be extra vigilant when it comes to the mandate of intelligence agencies.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#30

Post by jerpint »

sgift wrote: post #25

> This won't guarantee answers, however. It does mean the NSA will either need to satisfy Wyden's request, or Congress will need to hold a procedural vote to push through the confirmation. So, the most probable outcome is that this will delay the process for a few weeks at most until congress just pushes it through. At least it shines a bit light on the whole charade. Not that it makes much of a difference for me, si…

This is very likely common practice by many other governments
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