GCP Incidents • Hacker News Board

Re: GCP Incidents

#61

Post by iudqnolq » Sat, Dec 02, 2023, 1:06 PM UTC

gtirloni wrote: post #37

wkat4242 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Holland too. Even if someone sues you maliciously, you still have to pay the state a fee to be heard. Otherwise the judgement will fall to the enemy party by default. You can recuperate this cost from them when you win but you're still out of pocket for your time and the money until you manage to cash it from them which can be hard. And they can keep doing it. The system is very unfairly biased in favour of people…

This is pretty absurd to me. I'm not a lawyer so don't quote me on this, but here in Brazil, it seems the losing side has to pay the winning side's lawyers and other expenses. It's not clear cut how much will be paid and there are different rates but the message seems to be clear: don't sue willy-nilly because there will be consequences, so make sure you have a case.

Imagine you have an 80% chance of winning but Google will spend millions of dollars defending against your lawsuit. Is suing them worth the risk of a judgement that will ruin your life in perpetuity?

That's why in the US the losing side only has to pay if they committed some kind of misconduct.

There's a fair argument for both systems though, I just want to point out the American system isn't clearly absurd.

Edit: To a certain extent you can control your own costs. You might find a lawyer willing to donate their time, or you might find a scrappy team willing to take on Google for less money. But Google will always hire a top firm with high billing.

Re: GCP Incidents

#62

Post by ghusto » Sat, Dec 02, 2023, 1:08 PM UTC

I know AWS isn't cool or sexy, but shit works.

Re: GCP Incidents

#63

Post by merb » Sat, Dec 02, 2023, 1:09 PM UTC

politelemon wrote: post #35

simo7 wrote: post #24

Interesting, I’m starting to think undocumented thresholds are quite common in GCP. I experienced something similar with Clod Run: inexplicable scaling events based on CPU utilization and concurrent requests (the two metrics that regulate scaling according to their docs). After a lot of back and forth with their (premium) support it turns out there are additional criteria, smthg related to request duration, but of co…

Unnanounced changes too, there was a Firefox outage in 2022 due to GCP: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2022/02/retrospective-and-technica...

sorry but the blame here was 100% on Mozilla. No matter which http version, headers should always be treated as case-insensitive. Blanking anything on google here is just stupid. The problem was nih-syndrome and ignored the http spec.

Re: GCP Incidents

#64

Post by motoboi » Sat, Dec 02, 2023, 1:14 PM UTC

ghusto wrote: post #62

I know AWS isn't cool or sexy, but shit works.

It’s sad to see people rediscovering that GCP is not a serious product over and over again.

Re: GCP Incidents

#65

Post by from-nibly » Sat, Dec 02, 2023, 1:33 PM UTC

imiric wrote: post #60

hnlmorg wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not the GP but have been building websites off and on since the 1994. Back in the 90s it was hacky, but the extent of those hacks were small enough that even hobbyists could memorise those edge cases. Whereas these days there are so many footguns and edge cases that even seasoned professionals find it impossible to memorise everything. The amount of trial and error it takes to build a modern site is immense. With…

> Back in the 90s it was hacky, but the extent of those hacks were small enough that even hobbyists could memorise those edge cases. You're either misremembering, or have some thick rose-tinted glasses on. The late 90s were times of the Wild West Web. Every browser had custom behaviour and rendered pages differently. JavaScript and CSS were still new, and it took years for the implementations to be standardized. Webs…

Agreed. The thing that has changed about the web is the expectations have increased. There is no way that people could make the websites users expect today with only technology from the 90s.

Re: GCP Incidents

#66

Post by diamondfist25 » Sat, Dec 02, 2023, 1:36 PM UTC

davidgerard wrote: post #52

HOW TO CHOOSE A CLOUD PROVIDER * AWS: you will pay to have stuff work properly and you like having customer service * Azure: you hate yourself, you're running Windows or both * Google: you're cheap enough that basic functionality is an optional extra * Oracle: lol * Hetzner: cheap, good service, the finest pets in the world, no cattle

What about DO?

Re: GCP Incidents

#67

Post by m_sahaf » Sat, Dec 02, 2023, 1:39 PM UTC

chrismorgan wrote: post #58

BrutalCoding wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d say Flutter, a GUI framework backed by Google and it’s open source. I’ve recently ported over a popular project called “llama.cpp” to Dart (language behind Flutter) and I’ve recently made YT video’s showing it running natively on macOS, Linux, Android, iOS, iPadOS and next up is Windows. The official Ubuntu installer is made with Flutter too nowadays. But to be fair, last time I tried QT was somewhere in 2018, it…

But please don’t make web apps with Flutter. It has determinedly taken the pure-canvas route which makes it very unpleasant to use for a significant fraction of users, and all kinds of things just don’t work the right way and can’t . (I’ve written about the problems here on HN quite a few times, search and you’ll find them.)

For web, Flutter has 2 renderers and offers 3 options:

- html: Uses HTML elements and CSS

- canvaskit: which, as you mentioned, uses canvas to own the full drawing process

- auto: defaults to canvaskit on web but html on mobile.

Source: https://docs.flutter.dev/platform-integration/web/renderers

Re: GCP Incidents

#68

Post by nijave » Sat, Dec 02, 2023, 1:46 PM UTC

davidgerard wrote: post #52

HOW TO CHOOSE A CLOUD PROVIDER * AWS: you will pay to have stuff work properly and you like having customer service * Azure: you hate yourself, you're running Windows or both * Google: you're cheap enough that basic functionality is an optional extra * Oracle: lol * Hetzner: cheap, good service, the finest pets in the world, no cattle

>Azure

Or you have big enterprise customers that have a grudge against Amazon and Google and refuse to use anything else.

Re: GCP Incidents

#69

Post by wg0 » Sat, Dec 02, 2023, 1:46 PM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #46

Hammershaft wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has moved from native app dev to web dev I just feel my productivity and satisfaction has plummeted. The stack (html, js, css, browser functionality) that makes up the web is just not fit for the purpose of rich client applications. The development of the thick leaky abstractions that make up web frameworks have consumed millenia of human man hours, and yet the experience of developing & using the resu…

I hear this over and over, but what is the alternative cross-platform stack for building rich local GUI apps? Qt?

I see Electron, Tauri/Capacitor and friends as a viable route.

Second choice in terms of DX is Flutter. There's nothing like that out there in terms of DX although there are tons of other issues notably around performance.

Third would be Qt but that's not a viable tool because of licensing.

The first two options have no such licensing issues.

Re: GCP Incidents

#70

Post by mrweasel » Sat, Dec 02, 2023, 1:48 PM UTC

fallingknife wrote: post #54

havkom wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. If you keep off the “latest trends frameworks” and just keep it as vanilla and simple as possible web development can be productive, scalable and pleasant.

HN does that, and yet has outages and is so non performant that it can't handle when a post gets a couple thousand comments.

Not really, HN uses Postgresql, which should be fine, but it's also written in a pretty niche language. I think the argument in that an implementation in C# or Java, which is as boring as it gets in the web world, would fair much better.