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No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

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Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#11
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence agencies' very role is to break laws.

That's not true at all. Intelligence agencies can't just do whatever they want. They are beholden to the people just like every other government agency. They can be granted power to do things that ordinary people can't, but that doesn't mean they are above the law.

Yes they can do whatever they want and no they’re not beholden to anyone. When has the NSA ever been held accountable for their illegal spying on US citizens?

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#12
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence agencies' very role is to break laws.

That's not true at all. Intelligence agencies can't just do whatever they want. They are beholden to the people just like every other government agency. They can be granted power to do things that ordinary people can't, but that doesn't mean they are above the law.

Indeed. Being granted exclusive powers that would otherwise be illegal must always be given the respect it deserves: use of powers only when and as far absolutely necessary and reporting of and punishment of transgressions, intentional or not.

There is nothing more morally corrosive than a law enforcement agency betraying the trust represented by their powers.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#13
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence agencies' very role is to break laws.

That's not true at all. Intelligence agencies can't just do whatever they want. They are beholden to the people just like every other government agency. They can be granted power to do things that ordinary people can't, but that doesn't mean they are above the law.

The NSA has literally broken laws, lied about it, and gotten away with it.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#14
post #4

How about passing a law explicitly covering the kind of information being collected and sold as actually being private, and against the law to share with anyone without a warrant?

The NSA doesn’t follow the law, so why would that matter?

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#15
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that this will probably require a Constitutional Amendment to shore up the fourth amendment (call it 4A++).

It won't. There are already laws in place, like the California Consumer Privacy Act, which governs how user data is handled.

California law never supercedes federal law unless it's even more strict.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#16
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that this will probably require a Constitutional Amendment to shore up the fourth amendment (call it 4A++).

It won't. There are already laws in place, like the California Consumer Privacy Act, which governs how user data is handled.

And HIPPA.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#17
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true at all. Intelligence agencies can't just do whatever they want. They are beholden to the people just like every other government agency. They can be granted power to do things that ordinary people can't, but that doesn't mean they are above the law.

The NSA has literally broken laws, lied about it, and gotten away with it.

Technically not, they just had secret courts rubber stamp for them.

In the most technical sense it's legal though of course it subverts the entire idea of the justice system by having a court in your pocket.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#18
post #4

How about passing a law explicitly covering the kind of information being collected and sold as actually being private, and against the law to share with anyone without a warrant?

The NSA doesn’t follow the law, so why would that matter?

And when questioned, they lie to courts and Congress with impunity.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#19
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence agencies' very role is to break laws.

An intelligence agency’s role is gathering intelligence on malevolent entities that threaten a country in some way. Not more, not less—but their role certainly isn’t breaking laws per se, or amassing data on the general public to engage in pre-policing. No matter how much certain parties may advocate for that, a democracy cannot exist in a surveillance state, and anyone convinced of that has lost democratic legitimac…

They equally gather information on friendly democracies, bribe or blackmail people, hack computers, they are involved in trade negotiations, watch what all the parties are doing in civil wars, etc. It's not a good guys vs bad guys, good vs evil thing. They are a limited exception to democratic governments abiding to the rule of law. They are hired thugs, "our thugs". And I am not disputing that they are necessary. Just that it is a bit naive to think people whose job it is to break laws all day long will abide to another law. That's why they tend to be scandals rich organisations.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#20
post #5
post #4

How about passing a law explicitly covering the kind of information being collected and sold as actually being private, and against the law to share with anyone without a warrant?

Intelligence agencies' very role is to break laws.

To the extent that maybe it is, it should be other countries laws. Nobody has the authority to grant such law breaking permission (without a warrant). When you break the rules establishing a system, you no longer have that system, but a free for all.

The US constitution in particular aims to protect the people from government overreach. See the original amendments and read them in that light.

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