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A medieval Gothic monastery built using CAD / CAM

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Re: A medieval Gothic monastery built using CAD / CAM

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real question is "why"? And why would anybody think that's a good idea?

Because many people believe that making beautiful things is a way to praise their God. Hopefully they're entitled to spend their money the way they like.

> beautiful things

My first association is "fake" - which _is_ appropriate to describe (especially the roman catholic) churches (organisations, not buildings). But I guess that that's not their intention ;)

> Hopefully they're entitled to spend their money the way they like.

I don't know about the US, but in Europe spending money in such a way would be heavily criticised.

Re: A medieval Gothic monastery built using CAD / CAM

#32

Where do monks get the money to build this beast?

The real question is "why"? And why would anybody think that's a good idea?

Why would anybody think that’s a bad idea? Religions construct houses of worship, it’s sort of what they’ve done for thousands of years.

Re: A medieval Gothic monastery built using CAD / CAM

#33

Stonecutters, right out of the Simpsons.

No, the Stonecutters was a parody of the Freemasons. Ironically, there has never been anything the Catholic Church has published more formal statements denouncing, than Freemasonry. Not even the big ones like Abortion have as many. So much so, Francis released a formal response to a dubia (formal questioning) reaffirming that Catholics cannot be Freemasons just last week - even though the Freemasons represent a silly…

The Freemasons today may be obsolete as a revolutionary political force (note Philippe Egalite’s comparison of Freemasonry to a candle and revolution to the sun), but the primary reason Catholics cannot be Freemasons is theological. Freemasonry, despite what its members might claim, makes definite theological assertions that are incompatible with Christianity, and specifically, Catholicism.

[0] https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/what-are-the-masons...

Re: A medieval Gothic monastery built using CAD / CAM

#35
post #13

I was told we can't build like that anymore.

We cannot, but there are several specialists from Turkey, Iran and other Middle Eastern states who can still do.

> there are several specialists from Turkey, Iran and other Middle Eastern states who can still do

That makes it sound like somehow only those people can carve stone? That is far from the truth.

Look at this guy for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTCVaDTxTC4

He is a young fella somewhere in a UK happily knocking on stone until it becomes part of a cathedral. It is merely an economic decision how many of the like of him we wish to pay for.

Re: A medieval Gothic monastery built using CAD / CAM

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because many people believe that making beautiful things is a way to praise their God. Hopefully they're entitled to spend their money the way they like.

> beautiful things My first association is "fake" - which _is_ appropriate to describe (especially the roman catholic) churches (organisations, not buildings). But I guess that that's not their intention ;) > Hopefully they're entitled to spend their money the way they like. I don't know about the US, but in Europe spending money in such a way would be heavily criticised.

They're relying on donations and money they make selling stuff (roasted coffee, I think) and they're spending the money to praise God, which is pretty much what a religious organization does. Hard to criticize them in any meaningful way.

Re: A medieval Gothic monastery built using CAD / CAM

#37
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brutalism is yet another form of socialism that managed to make the world a bit sadder.

Brutalism-as-an-aesthetic-choice is cool, as-mandated-dogma just god awful.

It always was an architectural movement influenced by political motivations: reaction to nostalgic architecture of the 40s and low cost social housing influenced by socialist principles. It was pretty much imposed in uk by the government after the war and created a series of terrible housing estates in which crime proliferated (because they are impossible to police). Brutalist aesthetic became a thing long after, as an acquired taste.

Also tbh when people think of brutalist aesthetics they usually think of the same few grand building (like the Barbican Centre in London) that costed a lot of money, are constantly maintained to this day and are kind of an one-off. The day to day reality of brutalism, unfortunately, are huge blocks of high density houses in terrible maintenance conditions (reinforced concretes dissolves easily and leaves leaks and rusty rebar exposed) that cannot be replaced anymore.

Re: A medieval Gothic monastery built using CAD / CAM

#38
post #29

I was told we can't build like that anymore.

Well, technically, at the scale to house urban populations - no, because a) it’s expensive b) the talent is super scarce c) it’s so much cheaper and easier to source concrete buildings I’m sure one could source enough talent for few baroque villas or such but I have no idea what the budget would be. Obvious example is Gaudi’s La Sagrada Familia - don’t know how much of that is ’traditional’ vs ’non-traditional’ thoug…

And as the article notes, the monks quickly learned that doing all this manually would have been cost prohibitive.

I think we romanticize in our day and age the “method”. That is, we think that gothic architecture can only be built using the methods of the middle ages, that otherwise it is “fake”. It’s a strange prejudice that would have been foreign to the builders and architects of the original gothic cathedrals. These were people who were at the cutting edge of architectural technology and skill, certainly the cutting edge in Europe, not people who romanticized “being artisanal”. Frankly, the sophistication of gothic architecture rivals much of what we build today in many respects.

We also suffer from the strange, progressive, prejudiced belief that older styles are “anachronistic” if used today. They’re just styles. What does time have to do with anything? Architectural developments since the middle ages might change how we build such architecture or remove what had previously been a constraint imposed by the methods of the day (note the neogothic), but the essential character can remain the same…or it can undergo development.

I think that the availability of CNC machines makes architecturally beauty all the more accessible. Why we aren’t taking more advantage of the possibilities, I don’t know.

Re: A medieval Gothic monastery built using CAD / CAM

#39
post #18
post #12

Having read Anathem recently, I'm disappointed that they aren't taking it upon themselves to learn how to do it by hand.

Exactly. The whole point of doing replica of something so old especially for religious reasons is the struggle. It doesnt matter how long it would take or hard it would be. It might never get finished and in this case that would be fine too. Instead this seems closer to concrete/plaster Disneyland for monks wanting to roleplay times long gone.

I know where you're coming from, but I'm not sure I agree.

Traditional medieval cathedrals were built right on the limits of the materials, skills and labour available and still took generations and sometimes still collapsed due to overambition: especially lantern crossings, which are heavy and only supported in the corners.

Builders of cathedrals used the cutting edge tools and techniques of their days. If they'd declared, say, vaulted ceilings "cheating", they wouldn't have done what we see today.

I don't see a tension here: to them, perhaps, the monks are using skill, tools and material God made available to them to do the best they can (also considering the labour force God has not given them). Rejecting God's offer of tools that can make a better cathedral would be like a medieval architect swearing off a horse-powered crane to get a heavy keystone in place.

And for that matter, Gaudi's Sagrada Familia is only as complete as it is due to CNC stone cutting and other modern machinery.

I just wish, considering these kinds machines exist, that we could have them used to make beautiful building again in general, rather than always plumping for a variation on a glass-and-steel box (perhaps it's simply about the cost, but I do wonder if it's also about what's even possible to draw in AutoCAD for a normal architect!).

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