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Playstation removing previously purchased Discovery content

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Re: Playstation removing previously purchased Discovery content

#101

Post by whatevaa »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #99
kmeisthax wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's assuming you only ever run old Blu-Rays on that player. Blu-Ray has a thing called BD+ on it, which lets content companies run arbitrary native code on your player (among other things). It also lets you update your player's key revocation list for HDCP. So either of these mechanisms could be used to render your old purchased content unplayable.

Do you have any sources for this?

I did a work on DRM during my master degree. It's somewhat true, it's called Broadcast Encryption. They can stop your players ability to read new disks. They can't stop existing ones though, unless the disk requires online component or something.

DRM stands for Digital Rights Management, but I call it Digital Restrictions Management cause that's what it is from users point of view.

Re: Playstation removing previously purchased Discovery content

#102

Post by izacus »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #31
izacus wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical media (one that is left) is encrypted with remotely revokable licenses as well, so not sure what are you implying here.

It's not, WTH are you on about. My old Blu-Rays, will still play in my old Blu-Ray player 50 years from now. Those keys are burned in the DVD and in the player's chip and can't be remotely revoked because they run on physics, not magic.

AACS2 is the DRM scheme on BluRays (usually used on newer UHD ones) and has the ability to remotely revoke ability of decoding for players. That can either be done with payload on other discs or via internet connection if the player has it.

They already did that for PC playback for example, revoking keys for several players.

Re: Playstation removing previously purchased Discovery content

#103

Post by izacus »

LoganDark wrote: post #97
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they can ship updates on new disks and the player will read the code when it reads the movie.

So, pop in a new disc, and it comes with a new list of all the content that is not allowed to be played anymore? Ergo your old discs stop working because your player now knows the license expired or something stupid like that? That's literally evil.

Yep, it was even part of CSS (the older DVD DRM), but there they could "just" prevent playback of a given disc on certain players.

AACS2 allows for carrying revocation lists on discs now.

Re: Playstation removing previously purchased Discovery content

#104

Post by Nextgrid »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #61
Nextgrid wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're at least a decade late if you think "hacking" (in the sense of building things) is going to get you out of this situation. The problem with these platforms is network effects and lack of interoperability and not in the technical effort required to build an alternative. This is in fact where regulation can help (and like the EU's DMA already attempts to) get us back to a state where you can actually "hack" your…

> You're at least a decade late if you think "hacking" (in the sense of building things) is going to get you out of this situation. The problem with these platforms is network effects and lack of interoperability and not in the technical effort required to build an alternative. In the 90s, the same "arguments" held for Microsoft's applications. The hackers decided to build GNU/Linux and other open source operating sy…

> The hackers decided to build GNU/Linux and other open source operating systems.

Copyright law wasn't used to prevent adversarial interoperability back then. It does now, which is why you can't build alternative clients anymore unless you're out of reach of the US legal system (and even then, good luck getting it onto any app store since again, there are now gatekeepers to merely _installing_ software on one's machine).

Re: Playstation removing previously purchased Discovery content

#105

Post by iforgotpassword »

stavros wrote: post #50
kaladin-jasnah wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gabe Newell himself said "piracy is a service problem," and it really shows because buying on Steam is 10x more convenient as a Linux user than pirating the game. Especially with Linux gaming, I think Valve has made it more convenient to just buy games.

Steam is a godsend for Linux. I no longer have to even check where a game plays, I know that a Steam game will play on Linux. Nowadays I buy games mostly as thanks to Valve's Linux efforts, as I don't really tend to game much.

It's still not every game, checking protondb before buying is good advice.

Re: Playstation removing previously purchased Discovery content

#106

Post by bozhark »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #95
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then selling it was fraud, surely. I'm not a lawyer, but I've never understood how these online storefronts haven't been sued out of existence for claiming that you can "buy" something when they clearly mean something more akin to "leasing access to it until they feel like it".

Wake me up when Sony executives serve hard time for federal fraud charges. I’m afraid there is no justice for citizens victimized by the ownership class.

We could all band together and buy Sony out of it’s self

Re: Playstation removing previously purchased Discovery content

#107

Post by jasomill »

Semaphor wrote: post #47
ummzokbro wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piracy is an act of robbery or criminal violence by ship or boat-borne attackers upon another ship or a coastal area, typically with the goal of stealing cargo and other valuable goods.(1) This term was coopted by the MAFIAA because literal descriptions such as file sharing or unauthorized copying are not objectionable to the general public who see them as minor / insignificant and thus are not sensational enough to…

I know. But the word had been redefined by them, and then we might as well throw it back into their amoral faces.

The figurative IP rights infringement sense of the word "piracy" is over 250 years old.

Source: OED [1],

2. fig. The appropriation and reproduction of an invention or work of another for one's own profit, without authority; infringement of the rights conferred by a patent or copyright.

1771 Luckombe Hist. Print. 76 They..would suffer by this act of piracy, since it was likely to prove a very bad edition.

[1] https://archive.org/details/the-oxford-english-dictionary-19...

Re: Playstation removing previously purchased Discovery content

#108

Post by dotancohen »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #78
dotancohen wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you going to find a working 50 year old Blu-Ray player 50 years from now? I have continuously rediscovered that files in inaccessible formats become inaccessible after time, time and time again.

Er, I own working DVD readers, CD readers, and cassette players, and I don't personally own anything that can play 8-tracks or records but I know other people who do. Why would Blu-ray be the first exception?

I have no arguments about Blu-ray specifically, but with no open implementation I have general concern for the viability of the files. And relying on hardware working at all is a fickle proposition, even across the span of months or years.

Re: Playstation removing previously purchased Discovery content

#109

Post by wilg »

Daneel_ wrote: post #66
wilg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that in a physical tape you still only own a license of the content. This is a slightly less restrictive license than digital DRM, and is governed by copyright law, but is still a license.

Of course you can copy it. You just can’t sell that copy to someone else while keeping your own copy too. That’s copyright infringement. I’m not sure what you’re on about with “license” in this context. You own the VHS. Do with it what you like.

There are tons of things you can't do with it. You can't exhibit it publicly. You don't own the movie on the tape! You just own a tape.

I am refuting the original poster's claim that "With DRM you never purchase _content_. You only purchase a _license_ to access it." This is true, but is meant to imply there is an alternative. There isn't, a you only have a license to the content in all cases, including DRM-free physical media.

Re: Playstation removing previously purchased Discovery content

#110

Post by nebula8804 »

dotancohen wrote: post #108
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Er, I own working DVD readers, CD readers, and cassette players, and I don't personally own anything that can play 8-tracks or records but I know other people who do. Why would Blu-ray be the first exception?

I have no arguments about Blu-ray specifically, but with no open implementation I have general concern for the viability of the files. And relying on hardware working at all is a fickle proposition, even across the span of months or years.

You do have the ability to strip the DRM from the BR and burn or archive a copy of the content sans DRM. Of course you still have to contend with maintaining the longevity of the medium that the data is stored on but at least the content is free and in the clear for eternity.
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