Live data from Hacker News

Anduril announces Roadrunner, jet-powered VTOL drone

anduril.com

231–240 of 259 posts

Re: Anduril announces Roadrunner, jet-powered VTOL drone

#231
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always do wonder how realistic these war games actually are? > They (at least the war games that are public) always assume at least one or both sides are near 100% competent with their systems. Uhhh... that's not a wargame. A wargame is when you send actual commanders into the actual field, with their actual troops, and roleplay a scenario. Yeah, there's walkie talkies that go back to HQ where the top-level gener…

Those kind of war games are extremely expensive. More often it’s run like Age of Empires, just with modern units and 3rd party judges.

I presume that when its a big "X loses in Wargame!!!" stories that go around the press... they're at least choosing the expensive wargames, as you'd put it.

Like, I know that F22 fighters actually flew and were being tested vs RADAR systems in a recent wargame. Obviously no one shot anyone, but its not exactly cheap to run this equipment.

Still, its good roleplay / practice for the pilot (and their commanders and crew), so its absolutely worthwhile. Even if the whole wargame ends up being an unrealistic piece of crap, its still worth excersizing / practicing / drilling the fundamentals

Re: Anduril announces Roadrunner, jet-powered VTOL drone

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If NATO has no interest in Ukraine joining, then they could just have said no and avoided the entire mess.

You think Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine if NATO said no to their membership? You're so naive.

I can offer Russian statements spanning more than two decades consistently demanding that NATO stops expanding eastwards as evidence that this is what Russia cared about. What evidence do you have to the contrary? Why did they invade?

Re: Anduril announces Roadrunner, jet-powered VTOL drone

#233
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But none of that even addresses my argument, Russia opposed NATO expansion, Russia threatened severe consequences, NATO gave no signs that Ukraine would not be allowed to join NATO or entered any kind of negotiations, Russia delivered on its promise. I don't understand what you are talking about. NATO did exactly what you suggest: at the request of Russians, shut the door to NATO for Georgia and Ukraine. Russia use…

NATO did exactly what you suggest: at the request of Russians, shut the door to NATO for Georgia and Ukraine. Where do you get this interpretation from, honest question. In Bucharest 2008 France and Germany voiced opposition against a NATO membership of Georgia and Ukraine. Despite that resistance the declarations of the summit says the following. We reiterate that decisions on enlargement are for NATO itself to make…

> Where do you get this interpretation from, honest question. In Bucharest 2008 France and Germany voiced opposition against a NATO membership of Georgia and Ukraine. Despite that resistance the declarations of the summit says the following.

These are just nice words for consolation. At the same summit in Bucharest, NATO decided not to offer Ukraine and Georgia a Membership Action Plan, which is the procedure for joining NATO. NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia in any forseeable future was off the table. The prospect was from time to time dangled in front of them to encourage reforms and modernization, but that was it. The prospect of Turkey joining the EU has been of similar nature for many decades with little actual progress.

> Also article 10 says that new members must be in a position to contribute to the security in the treaty area. Depending on how one understands that sentence, a NATO membership of Ukraine - or even just its consideration - arguably achieved the exact opposite, at least for the moment.

That is generally understood as a requirement to maintain a capable fighting force and not to freeride on the backs of others in the alliance (see Article 3; Article 10 establishes the same requirement for new applicants). I don't think any reasonable person would call Ukraine freeriders. At the moment, they are one of the most capable fighting forces in the world, and will no doubt invest heavily in armed forces after the war.

> In December 2021 Russia made a final attempt to get a political resolution of the conflict, sending letters to the US president and NATO demanding an agreement. The response came in January 2022.

Russia demanded that the country I live in should be kicked out of NATO. The last time they made such ultimatums, my government chose to satisfy their demands in an attempt to use all means possible to avoid confrontation. In the end, Russians demanded military bases on our soil as forward posts against possible attacks from Central Europe (Napoleon and all that, 2023 isn't the first time around seeing that narrative). Tens of thousands of soldiers, countless tanks and artillery guns were brought in. Those bases were used as a staging area for taking over our national institutions and installing a puppet government that immediately asked Russians to officially occupy us. Widespread terror against the population followed, including deportation of tens of thousands of women and children in cattle cars to die in Siberian gulags. For half a century that followed, until 1991, they did all they could to suppress our language, culture and identity. They replaced a third of the population in the country with Russians, in an attempt to destroy our identity and merge us into an indistinguishable and unseparatable part of Russia. We were literally becoming a minority in our own country.

But by sheer luck, that Russian empire of shit collapsed due to chronic mismanagement and internal rotting. We were able to restore independence. Sweden helped immensely in getting Russian occupying force to leave in 1994. In a decade, we were able to crawl out of the shithole Russians forced us into, and satisfied all requirements needed to join the EU and NATO. Modern military with civilian oversight, a modern government with separation of powers, rule of law and high level of protection of human rights, high quality of life, some of the highest press freedom, economic freedom and other rankings in the world.

Why should we abandon all that, isolate ourselves internationally, and make ourselves a juicy target for Russians to invade again and force us back under their boot?

Finland, I stress, took the other route the last time around. Facing Russian ultimatums, they chose war. While they lost Karelia and Petsamo, they managed to keep their independence. After the war, they chose political neutrality and stayed out of NATO, but spent decades building up one of the largest armes in Europe against any future Russian invasions. Seeing the genocidal nature and the immense scale of Russian war against Ukraine dashed any hope of fighting off another Russian war alone. Finland abandoned the strategy of neutrality and chose to step into alliance with other European nations, as did the Swedes.

So despite quite different paths our countries took in the 20th century, we've all now reached the same conclusion that strong international cooperation is the best way to maintain our independence and security in the 21st century.

Are we all dumb and wrong? Should we cut ties and put our hopes on prayers that we won't become the target of the next war Russia decides to launch?

If you are the prime minister of Finland, Estonia or Poland, what is the responsible choice here that serves the interests of your people the best?

Re: Anduril announces Roadrunner, jet-powered VTOL drone

#234
post #77

So the emergency services use-cases seem obvious and straightforward, but rare. Can't be that big of a market for that, at least for repeat customers. Maybe I'm missing something, but I'd figure that those emergency services organizations would buy 2-3 and keep one in the field and the balance in inventory. The armed HE variant, that one does not seem that straightforward to me because I don't quite see how this is b…

I think the armed variants advantage is that you can launch 5 and call the rest back once you get a hit on the target. Shooting down modern/future hypersonic or stealth missiles is hard and there is no guarantee you will take it down with just one. So this way you can recover the rest once you get a hit.

Although then you need something something both fast, and refuelable, and recoverable. So... bigger, heavier, etc. And recovered and refuled in combat. Not necessarily impossible but much more complicated.

Re: Anduril announces Roadrunner, jet-powered VTOL drone

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine if NATO said no to their membership? You're so naive.

I can offer Russian statements spanning more than two decades consistently demanding that NATO stops expanding eastwards as evidence that this is what Russia cared about. What evidence do you have to the contrary? Why did they invade?

Nobody denies that Russia has tried to do everything they could to leave their neighbours internationally isolated to make them easy to subjugate. Criminals would no doubt like to see the police abolished and security systems dismantled. The question is why should anyone lend any legitimacy to their pretended excuses and sacrifice the freedom and wellbeing of tens of millions of Europeans in the name of imagined Russian "security concerns", which is just thinly veiled frustration over being unable to conquer them by force as long as international cooperation remains tight.

I don't want to see Russians destroy my home with artillery, rape and murder the people around me, and force me to live in Russia, where human life has no value, elections are rigged, and police can rape peaceful protestors with impunity. Can you perhaps devote a few seconds to my security concerns for a change?

Re: Anduril announces Roadrunner, jet-powered VTOL drone

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that great. I would know, I work there. The marketing is the shit though. It makes all the tech look like it's the greatest thing ever. The mentality here at this company is hack hack hack and the quality of the product reflect this. Don't expect German engineered precision. Expect products with poor quality, poor reliability and a failure rate that is very very high. What is good about this company is that…

> China dominates anduril by a landslide I mean, obviously. Anduril is one company, and still a relatively small company at that. > And if you want quality, anduril is not at the forefront of this at all. The US, as you mention, already has quality. We need speed and things that are "good enough" right now, not quality. Anduril seems to be heading pretty good in that direction.

They are heading in that direction slowly. Overall the products are pretty unreliable Probably two decades before it gets really good and by then there'll be so much red tape the company will have lost all the speed they have now. I can assure you our products are nowhere near good enough as of right now.

That's why there isn't a single video of a live demonstration against enemies. It's not that good. Palmer "suggested" our stuff is being used in Ukraine but how come I see tons of videos cheap drones operating in Ukraine and no anduril products? Because cheap drones are > then anything anduril has built.

>I mean, obviously. Anduril is one company, and still a relatively small company at that.

I meant that the average company in China operating in the same space can beat out anduril. Take DJI for example. Not even primarily a military company, their products BETTER than ours in the field of battle. There products were so effective in Ukraine that DJI had to write safe guards to prevent usage. Anduril can't hold a candle to this.

Re: Anduril announces Roadrunner, jet-powered VTOL drone

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that great. I would know, I work there. The marketing is the shit though. It makes all the tech look like it's the greatest thing ever. The mentality here at this company is hack hack hack and the quality of the product reflect this. Don't expect German engineered precision. Expect products with poor quality, poor reliability and a failure rate that is very very high. What is good about this company is that…

UI for spacex rockets in the ship is html and JavaScript. There is zero issue having a front end be in something easy to hack on

That's for internal use. For military customer use, usually it's expected that the UI be similar to a UI you get in an air plane cockpit. What happens when you go fly a passenger plane and you see chrome with some front end UI? Come on man.

Anyway, a front end UI can still work even though it's not ideal, but there's huge performance issues with what we have. Huge. The thing doesn't even run webgl for rendering, it's layering svgs on top of mapbox and those svgs are redrawn every frame with no caching. It's poorly designed and clunky and slow and buggy.

Re: Anduril announces Roadrunner, jet-powered VTOL drone

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine if NATO said no to their membership? You're so naive.

I can offer Russian statements spanning more than two decades consistently demanding that NATO stops expanding eastwards as evidence that this is what Russia cared about. What evidence do you have to the contrary? Why did they invade?

You actually believe Putin? Hahaha.

> Why did they invade?

Like I already stated earlier, because they want to control it like Georgia, Chechnya, Dagestan and Belarus. Only 1 of those countries was considered for NATO membership after the conflict kept going since 91 (considered membership in 2008).

> What evidence do you have to the contrary?

- Russia invading the North Caucasus (Chechnya, Dagestan, ...), without NATO having anything to do with it. *Please answer why they invaded.*

- Russia kept attacking Georgia since 91. Putin came in power in 2000 and he escalated that war, until it reached its peak in 2008 when NATO considered Georgias membership. So did Russia start that conflict because of NATO, or did Georgia wanted to join because of the conflict since 91? *Please answer why Russia kept the conflict going from 91 to 2008*

- Finland, a country with a huge border with Russia, applied for NATO membership in May 2022. Russia didn't invade that country to prevent them from joining *Please answer me why not*

- If Finland is such a huge threat for Russia because of NATO, *please show Russian troop buildup on that border since Finland applied and joined.*

- In 1999, Russia was one of the signatories of the Charter for European Security, which "reaffirmed the inherent right of each and every participating State to be free to choose or change its security arrangements, including treaties of alliance, as they evolve."

And last but not least, your dear friend Mr Putin said the following in 2002, as documented on the Kremlin website:

"On the topic of Ukraine’s accession to NATO, the Russian President said that it was entitled to make the decision independently. He does not see it as something that could cloud the relations between Russia and Ukraine."

Go read it at the Kremlin website http://www.en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/43122. *Anything to say about that?*

Re: Anduril announces Roadrunner, jet-powered VTOL drone

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are already spending money on this type of problem. Realistically, this looks like a more cost-effective solution. So you have it completely backwards – this being a thing might actually unlock more funds for domestic issues. Of course it probably won't work out this way because the DoD doesn't just say "We bought a bunch of Anduril Roadrunner's instead of $4m Patriot missiles [or whatever] this year, so we don't…

> Just look at SpaceX – before SpaceX, NASA had the ability to send stuff to space. But post-SpaceX, they can send more payloads at a cheaper cost. Isn't that better? They're now at the whim of an exceedingly eccentric billionaire for their space flight stuff. If Musk one day says he doesn't want to put up satellites that can be used to threaten Russia, NASA can't do anything about it, at least immediately (as they c…

[flagged]

Re: Anduril announces Roadrunner, jet-powered VTOL drone

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can offer Russian statements spanning more than two decades consistently demanding that NATO stops expanding eastwards as evidence that this is what Russia cared about. What evidence do you have to the contrary? Why did they invade?

You actually believe Putin? Hahaha. > Why did they invade? Like I already stated earlier, because they want to control it like Georgia, Chechnya, Dagestan and Belarus. Only 1 of those countries was considered for NATO membership after the conflict kept going since 91 (considered membership in 2008). > What evidence do you have to the contrary? - Russia invading the North Caucasus (Chechnya, Dagestan, ...), without NA…

It is sad how things turned out regarding the West's relationship with Russia.

Back around the year 2000, it really seemed things in eastern Europe were all moving in the right direction. The entire region was becoming more and more democratic, relations were warming up. Prosperity in Russia was increasing, things in general were looking positive.

It wasn't seriously discussed, and no concrete steps were taken, but there was speculation that Russia might join NATO eventually. There was concern about China (concern which has proved well founded) and having another strong partner in Russia would strengthen the bulwark against them.

But, well, should we really have expected so much from a former KGB officer like Putin? No, he turned into another Russian strongman, seeking only to enrich himself, and determined to only leave power feet-first. He illegally coerced the Russian oligarchs into giving him billions of dollars.

The story of democracy isn't over in the rest of eastern Europe (heck, it isn't over in the USA!), and there have been various partial successes and partial failures (esp. Hungary and Turkey). And the threat and actions of Russia has in turn strengthened the need for NATO.

Edit: I stand corrected - Concrete steps were taken for Russia to join NATO.

Post reply on HN