Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Automakers must build cheaper, smaller EVs to spur adoption, report says

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 76 posts

Re: Automakers must build cheaper, smaller EVs to spur adoption, report says

#21

Post by bombcar »

Abroszka wrote: post #9
nwvg_7257 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumer report says hybrids are more reliable than ICE and EVs https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-s... "Overall, hybrids have 26 percent fewer problems than cars powered by internal combustion engines (ICE)."

Seems fishy to me. How can a more complex device (ICE + EV) be more reliable than a pure ICE or EV? Also seems like a crap website, their chart show 79% more problems as red and then 26% fever as green.

Because modern ICE cars have freaking overgrown snowmobile transmissions, and a hybrid drivetrain can replace that entirely.

A hybrid can be simpler than an ICE car (by eliminating the transmission and allowing the engine to be power-banded) and cheaper than an EV (because a 10x size battery is more than the cost of the engine and generator).

Re: Automakers must build cheaper, smaller EVs to spur adoption, report says

#23

Post by the_crocodile »

This is a natural market progression and will happen. Most automakers built higher cost, lower volume "premium" products for less price sensitive early adopters. As the product and market matures, costs reduce and more mass market products are available at lower costs (Model S->Model 3 -> Model 2 etc). Used cars also become available over time to increase supply and lower costs for a different market segment.

Re: Automakers must build cheaper, smaller EVs to spur adoption, report says

#24

Post by Abroszka »

oldnetguy wrote: post #19
Abroszka wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then just rent an ICE car when you go for a long drive... better for the environment.

That makes no financial sense. I bought a car because rentals over time exceeded the ownership of owning. Since many trips are outside the EV range.

Not sure. In the comment I replied to, they mentioned that EV is good 95% of the time. In that case, renting a car, like once a month, for a long range tip would make sense imo. Better yet, public transport, then rent an EV there.

Re: Automakers must build cheaper, smaller EVs to spur adoption, report says

#25

Post by pmorici »

Yhippa wrote: post #14

I was very close to buying an EV this summer but ended up not getting it. It felt like I could get an equivalent ICE car for about $20K cheaper. I did a lot of research about EV charging and the more I read the more I felt I didn't understand how it would practically work. I make a long trip every month or so and it sounds like the EV charging network isn't quite to where the point where it's as easy, quick, and cost…

If you get a Tesla it is solved now. The charging is seamless and reliable pretty much everywhere except the very most out of the way places. All the rest though that can't yet use Tesla's charging network I would agree total trash if you want to do a long trip and need charging. This should change in ~2 years when manufactures start making more EVs that are compatible with NACS (aka Tesla's super charger network)

Re: Automakers must build cheaper, smaller EVs to spur adoption, report says

#26

Post by bombcar »

Yhippa wrote: post #14

I was very close to buying an EV this summer but ended up not getting it. It felt like I could get an equivalent ICE car for about $20K cheaper. I did a lot of research about EV charging and the more I read the more I felt I didn't understand how it would practically work. I make a long trip every month or so and it sounds like the EV charging network isn't quite to where the point where it's as easy, quick, and cost…

I'm fine with the capabilities and the charging side of things, it's the complete lack of (available) competitive PHEVs or full EVs.

They seem to be using it to tack $10-20k more, even before credits. $20k is quite a bit of gas.

Re: Automakers must build cheaper, smaller EVs to spur adoption, report says

#27

Post by antisthenes »

How many times are we going to have to rediscover the supply/demand curve?

Turns out if you steal all the savings from owning an EV in terms of fuel from the consumer, they are less likely to want to buy one.

Will the mysteries of the world never cease?

Re: Automakers must build cheaper, smaller EVs to spur adoption, report says

#28

Post by droopyEyelids »

rgmerk wrote: post #10

In much of the world you can buy a BYD Atto 3, which sits in precisely this sector of the market. But not in the USA.

This is interesting because it shows some complexity inherent to a government supporting a domestic industry.

Naively it seems like the government would block imports of the small Chinese EVs so that domestic industry could compete

BUT domestic automakers do not want the segment of a $5k tiny vehicle to exist at all, and will not 'compete' for that market! The margins and sales on such a thing would hurt the us auto industry as a whole. Even if a single US automaker stood to win the whole segment, their revenue and OI would sink because of cannabalizing their own full sized sales.

So we're left with a profound market distortion, where the "government's" (scare quotes because legislation in this area is driven by automakers not citizens) work to support the industry is having a bunch of unexpected effects. Sure, the automakers stocks are doing fine, but this has shut off development of a new technology, which will end up taxing the populace & increasing impact to the environment, and throttling a new domestic industry that will have defense applications in the future.

Re: Automakers must build cheaper, smaller EVs to spur adoption, report says

#29

Post by bombcar »

Swizec wrote: post #13
jabroni_salad wrote: post #5

Isn't the upsizing of vehicles because of consumer demand, though? They can sell crossovers and trucks into the consumer base at such volume and margin that it is worthwhile to simply stop making sedans. There are people like me who just want an electric honda fit but it seems like there aren't enough of us to be worth the effort.

> an electric honda fit IoniQ 5 comes close. It's the first EV that made me go "omg I want that!". One of these days I'll take one for a test drive. Looks so cool, isn't super huge even though it's still big, and doesn't even try to look like a SUV. Although maybe I've been in USA too long and my perception is skewed because Wikipedia calls it a "compact crossover suv". Maybe battery size is a limiting factor here? T…

SUV is also an over-abused term because it used to only refer to giant vehicles, but now all the various compacts and crossovers are just cars that ride a bit higher.

And all things considered, a car with a trunk will almost always lose to the same vehicle with a more SUV-like end, because it can hold more.

Re: Automakers must build cheaper, smaller EVs to spur adoption, report says

#30

Post by floxy »

jabroni_salad wrote: post #5

Isn't the upsizing of vehicles because of consumer demand, though? They can sell crossovers and trucks into the consumer base at such volume and margin that it is worthwhile to simply stop making sedans. There are people like me who just want an electric honda fit but it seems like there aren't enough of us to be worth the effort.

> electric Honda fit

Are you looking for one specifically made by Honda? Or what is missing from the small electric hatchbacks like the Chevy Bolt or Nissan Leaf?

Post reply on HN