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Billionaires amass more through inheritance than wealth creation, says UBS

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Re: Billionaires amass more through inheritance than wealth creation, says UBS

#161

And yet 70% of generational wealth is gone by the 2nd generation.

https://jamesgrubman.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/2022-06-...

It seems that the 70% "rule" is on very wobbly legs. I wonder if there are any actual studies - well, now I know what I'm doing this afternoon ;)

Re: Billionaires amass more through inheritance than wealth creation, says UBS

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what about it a Trust is depressing exactly? It's just a legal agreement for how wealth can be spent.

Money is a social construct, and it seems you are starting from the base assumption that wealth can be transferred infinitely and unrestricted between generations. Not everyone holds that view of money.

Isn't that the idea behind a nation or any other governance structure? The wealth built within the entity can be transferred infinitely and unrestricted between generations?

What's the difference if the structure is a government, religion, guild, corporation, cartel, mafia, family or Mars colony?

Re: Billionaires amass more through inheritance than wealth creation, says UBS

#163
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true if you view the world from a zero-sum perspective. If the rich are winning, then the poor must be losing. But I would argue the world is not zero-sum. Modern life for middle class or poor class people is a lot better than the vast majority of history (the 2 notable exceptions are post WWII USA and post Cold War USA, when America was punched through as an undisputed global superpower). We are a looooonnng…

I think you're confusing zero-sum between people at different economic levels and zero-sum between people at different points in time. Yes, people at a given economic percentile today have many things better in absolute terms compared to poor people at that same economic percentile X years ago. (This is obviously true for large enough X. Everyone's got it better today than the Cro-Magnons did!) That does not mean the…

> Every dollar in a billionaire's bank account is a dollar that could be in someone else's instead.

This is not an example. Today the government can print more dollars out of thin air. So no, dollars is not zero-sum.

Even then, dollars is only an approximation of value, the thing that really matters. And value is also not zero-sum because of technological innovation and the existence of waste. If we are smarter about how apply our resources, literally more people can have more, and no one has to lose. (One example is people in the US simultaneously being food insecure while the nation also has tremendous food waste).

Re: Billionaires amass more through inheritance than wealth creation, says UBS

#164
post #32
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For more on this, which I really don't recommend, google "South Dakota Dynasty Trust."

> "Dynasty trusts can be created in South Dakota for families who do not live in the state. South Dakota allows trusts to continue in perpetuity, avoiding federal transfer taxes for generations. The state does not impose any form of taxation (income, dividend interest, capital gains) on these trust assets."

What is the point for South Dakota if they don't collect taxes? Just being conservative assholes against the other states? Being ideological jerks?

Re: Billionaires amass more through inheritance than wealth creation, says UBS

#165

This is the conclusion of Thomas Picketty's 2013 book, "Capital in the 21st Century." Due to the historical averages of the rate of return on capital, he concluded empirically that wealth will continue to concentrate to the point to inheritors, to the extent that individuals become increasingly unable through labor to achieve parity to the inheritors. The book was very provocative in economist circles, but even the c…

Hardly empirical. The data shows the opposite. ~80% of current billionaires in the U.S. are self-made first generation.

And another large chunk are first generation inherited. Like self made mom or dad just kicked the bucket. This myth of multi-generational, dynastic absurd wealth is.... nonsense with few exceptions.

Re: Billionaires amass more through inheritance than wealth creation, says UBS

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People whine about "wealth distribution" day and night, but at the end of the day what alternative is there to combat the (continually increasing) concentration of wealth at the top? At some point there will have to be redistribution, in some form, and the sooner society comes around to that the better off we'll all be.

The alternative of last resort is always violent revolution[1]. Wealth redistribution is the olive branch. There seems to be an open question among the wealthy and political class of how far inequality can go given the modern police state and effectiveness of technology in accomplishing the goal of maintaining or exacerbating the current political economy. 1. See historical populist grivences against aristocracy that…

Overwhelmingly, violent revolution doesn't actually bring about the goals of the revolution. It just installs a new power structure with variations on all the old problems. Sometimes much worse.

So it isn't really a "last resort". It's more of a "well you didn't compromise, so now our choice is to burn the whole system down"

Re: Billionaires amass more through inheritance than wealth creation, says UBS

#167
post #87

This doesn’t appear to breakout by country. This isn’t surprising for more socialist countries like in the EU where it is harder to start and build businesses (wealth) in general. I’d be surprised if it was the same in the US where studies have shown that the majority of wealth is not inherited.

Socialist is really not the word I would use. "Less egalitarian", "more classist" are better descriptors. Access to capital is more restricted in countries like Germany compared to the US. This is both due to more conservative financial regulations, but also because the wealthy classes who own the capital are more of an insular group who are less keen to invest in members who are not already part of the club.

Re: Billionaires amass more through inheritance than wealth creation, says UBS

#168

Yet on the billionaire leaderboard the top-10 are: Musk, Arnault, Bezos, Ellison, Buffet, Gates, Zuckerberg, Balmer, Page, Bin. Not one of them through inheritance. Sure, you have the waltons a little lower on the list. As a person who started in the bottom decile of wealth I want to hate inheritance at least as much as the next person. But at first glance it sure doesn't look good for these "researchers".

Musk: Rich father, emerald mine money? Arnault: "In 1971, he graduated from the École Polytechnique, France's leading engineering school, and began work for his father's company. Three years later, after he convinced his father to shift the focus of the company to real estate" Gates: "His father was a prominent lawyer" "At age 13, he enrolled in the private Lakeside prep school, where he wrote his first software prog…

oh, and according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakeside_School_(Seattle)

> Annual tuition $40,080

Does your parents spending $160,000 to send you to high school not count as inheriting wealth ?

Re: Billionaires amass more through inheritance than wealth creation, says UBS

#169
post #142
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a false dichotomy. Redistributing =/= squandering.

How is it different? Squandering typically means spending, which means the money is re-entering the economy, typically to people at lower rungs of the wealth ladder, and is not much different than other forms of redistribution. Unless you mean the squandered billions was through literal setting piles of money ablaze or losing it all in a poker game to bigger billionaires, it seems if redistribution was the goal then…

To me, the true horror is when its spent on worthless or awful things, wasting limited resources, and the better part of peoples lives

Re: Billionaires amass more through inheritance than wealth creation, says UBS

#170

This is the conclusion of Thomas Picketty's 2013 book, "Capital in the 21st Century." Due to the historical averages of the rate of return on capital, he concluded empirically that wealth will continue to concentrate to the point to inheritors, to the extent that individuals become increasingly unable through labor to achieve parity to the inheritors. The book was very provocative in economist circles, but even the c…

Hardly empirical. The data shows the opposite. ~80% of current billionaires in the U.S. are self-made first generation.

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