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My insulin pump controller has a bug

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Re: My insulin pump controller has a bug

#51

Post by galangalalgol »

HumblyTossed wrote: post #17
Decabytes wrote: post #5

I know the department of defense used to use Ada because it was a “safety critical” language. I feel like when it comes to this devices there should be more stringent guidelines around coding practices. Is that not the case?

The is the point where the Rust brigade swoops into the conversation.

I smell unoxidized metal! I love rust, use it almost exclusively. And ferrocene just certified it for industrial and automotive.

And it doesn't sound to me like using rust or ada would have prevented this. It sounds like the android ui, which almost certainly is not in any certified toolchain, had a string handling error. The ui for a safety critical device is safety critical code, it sounds like that isn't how the rules actually work though, or you wouldn't be running it on a phone.

Re: My insulin pump controller has a bug

#52

Post by sidewndr46 »

mtmail wrote: post #2

Non-twitter link: https://nitter.net/morganherlocker/status/173045572181552742... (edit: I'm not the author) "Notified today that my insulin pump controller has a bug where the leading decimal point will be dropped, ie: changing a dose of .21 units to 21 units. I can reproduce randomly ~1 in 5 times so probably a race condition. Easily one of the worst software bugs I have ever heard of."

wouldn't this put someone into a state of insulin shock?

Re: My insulin pump controller has a bug

#54

Post by Maxion »

freedomben wrote: post #48
pavel_lishin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my first job out of college, we were hired to create a point-of-sale system. We wrote it in Javascript, being unaware of how Javascript treats numbers. (Like a rented mule.) After the first few days, the client reached out and told us that the end-of-day numbers were sometimes off by a few cents - tax totals, things like that. After a few weeks, they'd be off by significantly more. Easily the most embarrassing inc…

We had a similar issue with random four-letter codes. The simplest and easiest solution was to remove vowels from the pool of candidates. Consonant only codes are much harder to generate real words.

FCK!

Re: My insulin pump controller has a bug

#55

Post by noir_lord »

chpatrick wrote: post #27
kragen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are, that's why insulin pump firmware is developed using obsolete and error-prone methods by substandard engineers and why you can't get the source for your insulin pump firmware and reflash it with a bug-fixed version

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think letting anyone mess with the equipment keeping them alive is a good idea either. I really love open source IoT stuff for example and I think it's a great that people are trying to take real ownership of their devices. However it's different if the penalty for failure is your lights not working or immediate death. I think a better solution would be if the source was re…

> I think a better solution would be if the source was required to be public so people can identify bugs, but without giving users the ability to flash.

That would be a solution, still has the problem of "how do you confirm the bug if you can't run the code".

Finding those kinds of subtle bugs pretty much requires you be able to execute it.

Re: My insulin pump controller has a bug

#56

Post by parthianshotgun »

fifteen1506 wrote: post #19

Cue the "you wouldn't steal a car" music. ♫ "You wouldn't demand open-source software for life-critical contexts instead of the industry-perfected closed software" ♫

I am bad at reading this, can you elaborate what you mean? Should we open source life critical software?

Re: My insulin pump controller has a bug

#57

Post by wwilim »

deltaburnt wrote: post #39

I'm not familiar with insulin dosing, but I'm guessing a sharp 10x jump should warrant my app telling me to go to the hospital? I'd expect medical devices like this to have a last line of defence safety check against bugs. Basically checking all common sense edge cases like: is this dose lethal to humans, is this dose significantly more/less than historical doses, is this dose below a level in which most humans would…

I nearly died in my sleep 2 years ago from about 10 units unexpectedly releasing into my system from swollen tissue left behind by a broken infusion site. What the author describes is potentially lethal.

The thing is, there is no such thing as a lethal dose of insulin per se. If you want to eat half a large pizza and wash it down with a can of coke, you'll likely dose 15 or more units. But dose the same amount and end up not eating your meal and you are in extremely big trouble within half an hour.

Re: My insulin pump controller has a bug

#58

Post by cypherpunks01 »

"We understand this may impact your experience and are here to support you."

I love this - I've never heard the euphemism impact your experience used to mean that your life may end. What a wild PR assignment

(language off the company's safety notice https://www.omnipod.com/en-gb/fsn-11-2023)

Re: My insulin pump controller has a bug

#59

Post by onetimeuse92304 »

fifteen1506 wrote: post #19

Cue the "you wouldn't steal a car" music. ♫ "You wouldn't demand open-source software for life-critical contexts instead of the industry-perfected closed software" ♫

I think you are missing the point.

The point is that with commercial software is that there exists an entity that accepts responsibility for it under threat of severe penalties.

You don't want somebody to be killed and then have just everybody shrug "it is not me" and not be able to find a culprit.

Personally, I always include a note that my software is offered as is and I do not accept any liability for anything that it might do including damage to property or somebody's health or life.

That, obviously, absolutely disqualifies it from any critical use.

But that's only fair, if I am not compensated for my work I should not be held liable for it either.

Now, once we find out the software pretty much must be developed commercially, there exists currently no way to force the commerce to make the code public and there are valid arguments in the debate that making it public could make it less safe.

Re: My insulin pump controller has a bug

#60

Post by yankoff »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #52
mtmail wrote: post #2

Non-twitter link: https://nitter.net/morganherlocker/status/173045572181552742... (edit: I'm not the author) "Notified today that my insulin pump controller has a bug where the leading decimal point will be dropped, ie: changing a dose of .21 units to 21 units. I can reproduce randomly ~1 in 5 times so probably a race condition. Easily one of the worst software bugs I have ever heard of."

wouldn't this put someone into a state of insulin shock?

It will drop the blood sugar level dangerously low and cause hypoglycemia. A person can lose consciousness, get into a coma, or even die.
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