Live data from Hacker News

My insulin pump controller has a bug

twitter.com

21–30 of 172 posts

Re: My insulin pump controller has a bug

#21

I know the department of defense used to use Ada because it was a “safety critical” language. I feel like when it comes to this devices there should be more stringent guidelines around coding practices. Is that not the case?

There are: ISO 13485 and 62304. And different levels of design and testing for different classes of medical device.

For example, I worked on a new ventilator at the start of the pandemic (https://www.cambridgeconsultants.com/press-releases/building...). As a medical device that was "in the loop" of keeping the patient alive, some of the strictest restrictions applied. There were 2 MCUs - one doing the control work, and another monitoring that first one, checking it agreed with the decisions and sounding an alarm if not. These two processors had to be different manufacturers, and had to use separate development teams (all to reduce the chance of a common mode failure).

The regulators are just checking you do the process though: does it look like you have done your design rigorously, and tested thoroughly. There's no way to check that you've done your design well though.

Re: My insulin pump controller has a bug

#24

I can't comprehend how that kind of bug even happens. Not that insulin pumps should have any bugs, but it doesn't even sound like an integer overflow or use after free which is "understandable". Are they doing some kind of scuffed string parsing?

They probably wrote the controller in JavaScript

Re: My insulin pump controller has a bug

#26

I know the department of defense used to use Ada because it was a “safety critical” language. I feel like when it comes to this devices there should be more stringent guidelines around coding practices. Is that not the case?

I had the exact same thoughts and I was about to bring up this very same point. Ada is still use heavily in medical devices and even has a decimal type.

Re: My insulin pump controller has a bug

#27
post #20

I know the department of defense used to use Ada because it was a “safety critical” language. I feel like when it comes to this devices there should be more stringent guidelines around coding practices. Is that not the case?

there are, that's why insulin pump firmware is developed using obsolete and error-prone methods by substandard engineers and why you can't get the source for your insulin pump firmware and reflash it with a bug-fixed version

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think letting anyone mess with the equipment keeping them alive is a good idea either.

I really love open source IoT stuff for example and I think it's a great that people are trying to take real ownership of their devices. However it's different if the penalty for failure is your lights not working or immediate death.

I think a better solution would be if the source was required to be public so people can identify bugs, but without giving users the ability to flash.

Re: My insulin pump controller has a bug

#30
post #24

I can't comprehend how that kind of bug even happens. Not that insulin pumps should have any bugs, but it doesn't even sound like an integer overflow or use after free which is "understandable". Are they doing some kind of scuffed string parsing?

They probably wrote the controller in JavaScript

At my first job out of college, we were hired to create a point-of-sale system.

We wrote it in Javascript, being unaware of how Javascript treats numbers. (Like a rented mule.)

After the first few days, the client reached out and told us that the end-of-day numbers were sometimes off by a few cents - tax totals, things like that. After a few weeks, they'd be off by significantly more.

Easily the most embarrassing incident of my career, even worse than when I accidentally left a `console.log("FUCK");` in production code as a debugging tool, or when we wrote some code to generate random four-letter codes that would spew out the occasional profanity.

Post reply on HN