Henry Kissinger Has Died • Hacker News Board

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#581

Post by mattnewton » Thu, Nov 30, 2023, 4:30 PM UTC

workingdog wrote: post #551

mattnewton wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ellsberg had access to the information Kissinger had and still thought the Vietnam war was unjust and unwinnable. It’s hard to imagine what Kissinger knew that would drastically change my perception on him.

The Vietnam war was unjust and unwinnable. JRK got us into it, and Nixon got us out of it while navigating the complexities of China, the cold war, and a potential WW III if we appeared too weak.

JFK and Johnson deserve the blame for starting the war, by the end of Johnson’s term it was obvious the public wanted out of the war and he was negotiating the end of it. Nixon and Kissinger extended the war for political reasons. They met behind the American governments back with the south Vietnamese and convinced them to hold out for a better deal from the republicans, and they withdrew from talks and tanked Johnson’s peace deal. They eventually negotiated almost the same deal but worse after many American lives, and many more Vietnamese, Cambodian and Laotian lives were spent. By all appearances, for nothing more than electing Nixon.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#582

Post by igravious » Thu, Nov 30, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #418

I just can’t help think how much wider the global support for the west (incl eg ukraine) would be today if Kissinger’s “we can do war crimes and install dictators all we like cause we’re the good guys” doctrine hadn’t made it to the forefront of US policy. Even from a hardcore neorealist perspective, the harm has by now well outlasted the benefit.

Kissinger is on record (from WEF/Davos of all places) as having criticized the West's position in the Ukraine-Russia conflict. The only reason he swum against the tide was because he was 98 at the time and probably doesn't give a shit what anybody thinks of him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOZw0zGFvzI

He's a monster and I'm glad he's dead but he was spot on about the inevitable outcome in Ukraine and how sanctions and enmity have pushed Russia even further into china's loving embrace.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#583

Post by david927 » Thu, Nov 30, 2023, 4:43 PM UTC

__loam wrote: post #384

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> level at which Henry Kissinger micromanaged the bombing of innocent civilians can not be overlooked Sure. But legally irrelevant. He didn’t command them. The person receiving the order could—and in many cases, should—have refused. That’s different if e.g. Nixon ordered it directly, because in that case it’s a military command. Again, these terms had meaning. But they’re practically unenforceable even in public opin…

I think I hate this website.

The effort of these apologists makes my stomach sick

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#584

Post by marcelluspye » Thu, Nov 30, 2023, 4:47 PM UTC

nojvek wrote: post #569

Guy was a crook and had no remorse for killing millions of civilians and cozying up with dictators. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/henry-kissinger-dies_n_637693... The world needs less people like him. No one should ever be complicit in carpet bombing. It's inhumane. We in the US ought to hold the govt accountable everytime they drop bombs from the sky on civilians. We're currently helping Israel do that in Gaza with…

>That is not who we are.

No, that is not who you would like us to be/have been. Very evidently, that is who we are.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#585

Post by Obscurity4340 » Thu, Nov 30, 2023, 4:57 PM UTC

Novosell wrote: post #575

Obscurity4340 wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people ever call her Lill or Lilly (phonetically)?

Nah, no nicknames that I'm aware of. Sweden isn't too big on nicknames in general I'd say.

Is it true you stand a crazy wife distance apart when queueing or at bustops?

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#586

Post by stormking » Thu, Nov 30, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

nojvek wrote: post #569

Guy was a crook and had no remorse for killing millions of civilians and cozying up with dictators. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/henry-kissinger-dies_n_637693... The world needs less people like him. No one should ever be complicit in carpet bombing. It's inhumane. We in the US ought to hold the govt accountable everytime they drop bombs from the sky on civilians. We're currently helping Israel do that in Gaza with…

Hospitals and schools that are used by Hamas.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#587

Post by burnerburnito » Thu, Nov 30, 2023, 5:12 PM UTC

stormking wrote: post #586

nojvek wrote: post #569

Guy was a crook and had no remorse for killing millions of civilians and cozying up with dictators. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/henry-kissinger-dies_n_637693... The world needs less people like him. No one should ever be complicit in carpet bombing. It's inhumane. We in the US ought to hold the govt accountable everytime they drop bombs from the sky on civilians. We're currently helping Israel do that in Gaza with…

Hospitals and schools that are used by Hamas.

While I agree to an extent, this begs an obvious question: How far do we take this line of thinking?

Is an attack like 9/11 justified since even the twin towers were used by the US government indirectly, owing to nearly everyone within paying taxes that supported US wars and expeditionary-ism?

Likewise, I'd want to keep in mind things like relative size and options on the table. WW2 incendiary and atomic bombing is one thing in the context of the ferocity and consumption of that war. Yet in the case of a small territory under varying degrees of military occupation and without full self determination, is there really no capability to take any action but bombing such places? (And no moral imperative to try to cause less collateral if it's realistically possible?)

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#588

Post by colpabar » Thu, Nov 30, 2023, 5:13 PM UTC

nojvek wrote: post #569

Guy was a crook and had no remorse for killing millions of civilians and cozying up with dictators. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/henry-kissinger-dies_n_637693... The world needs less people like him. No one should ever be complicit in carpet bombing. It's inhumane. We in the US ought to hold the govt accountable everytime they drop bombs from the sky on civilians. We're currently helping Israel do that in Gaza with…

>helping israel

>not who we are

It is absolutely who we are. We unconditionally support israel no matter what they do. They are our greatest ally!

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#589

Post by robertoandred » Thu, Nov 30, 2023, 5:14 PM UTC

nojvek wrote: post #569

Guy was a crook and had no remorse for killing millions of civilians and cozying up with dictators. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/henry-kissinger-dies_n_637693... The world needs less people like him. No one should ever be complicit in carpet bombing. It's inhumane. We in the US ought to hold the govt accountable everytime they drop bombs from the sky on civilians. We're currently helping Israel do that in Gaza with…

Remember when Hamas said Israel air bombed a hospital killing hundreds and everyone believed them and it turned out they were lying and it was actually a PIJ misfire.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#590

Post by js2 » Thu, Nov 30, 2023, 5:15 PM UTC

thrdbndndn wrote: post #176

js2 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gift link: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/29/us/henry-kissinger-dead.h...

Don't even know this is a thing. Thank you kind stranger.

Subscribers get 10 gift links a month. They added this sometime in the last year or two.

I've been able to stay perennially subscribed to the NYT for $5/month. It's a love/hate relationship and I've probably unsubscribed and re-subscribed more than a dozen times. Unsubscribing got a lot easier a few years back. It used to be super annoying.