Do managers get PIPed too? I've only ever seen regular devs get PIPed
I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans
311–320 of 618 posts
Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans
#312> If you walked away during the Pivot or anytime before you had your investment before it was there for you, you would lose it all. And I'm not talking a little bit of money. I'm talking: I had a couple hundred thousand dollars coming to me. What exactly are people in HR doing to warrant getting over $200k in stock grants? Even spread over an entire vesting schedule (and it's not, it's just the final vest) that's lud…
Laying off lots of people isn't fun?
Neither is laying concrete but those guys aren't getting a quarter million in stock every 4 years, despite having a more positive effect on the economy.
Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans
#313My perspective: I was your everyday ordinary CRUD developer in 2020 with leading a few projects under my belt at mostly unknown companies who had two years of AWS experience and was 46 years old. A recruiter from Amazon Retail reached out to me on LinkedIn about interviewing for a software engineering position. At 46 years old there were a number of problems I saw with that “opportunity”: - I hadn’t done a real codin…
Yep, Assuming you will be fired eventually and will have to fall back to a normal CRUD job is the right play when taking these high pressure, high salary roles. Any idea why you were PIPed after 3 years?
Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans
#314Earlier quoted context omitted.
> if this is the case, it doesn't feel like they tried very hard? I don't think you get it. The way this stuff is done is just as described - totally blindsiding, and potentially flat-out gaslighting. There's no actual metrics or data until they fabricate a paper trail and force you out. You don't win these things. Rather, you take your money and go elsewhere. Then turn down the subsequent job offers you get from the…
But it sounds like he won? He got his $200k and found a new job before any PIP was implemented? Why would his manager have been upset if they were actually trying to force him out? Surely HR knows how long it takes to exit someone and if they wanted to keep the $200k they would have started the process earlier?
His manager was likely upset because the guy left before he was put on the PIP and so wouldn't count towards the HR VP's (and by extension his manager's) 6% goal.
Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, I've seen plenty of very capable people put very little to no effort into their work.
If Amazon's only management stick is to mark 30% underperforms & cull 6% every year, then they need to send their managers to manager school.
Their stated goal is for each person they hire on a team to be better than 50% of their peers. For a company that professes to think a lot about the long term, I'd suggest they need to go to math school before they go to manager school.
Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans
#316> That next day, I called my manager and I told them I was resigning. They blew a gasket — absolutely blew a gasket I don't understand how someone could be responsible for a policy that puts people's livelihood at risk under the headline of "just business things" and not expect the same treatment from their employees. "sorry boss - just looking out for my shareholder: me"
I'm genuinely curious about this - my best guess is there may be some measurement on the manager's employee retention numbers or similar that would make the manager look bad to have an employee quit.
Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
One thing about fat that I think is overlooked is how fat today might be muscle tomorrow, and how little companies try to convert it. Maybe a person is in a bad role, on a bad team, or simply doesn't have experience or skills fitting the specific requirements of that single point in time. I've been a high performer in the past. Now I'm a low performer (I'm slow) after the company has changed the way it treats teams/w…
What's an ASC?
Application security champion. Basically the Sec part of DevSecOps for the team. It sounds a lot cooler than it is. It's mostly paperwork.
Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans
#318This is a carry on from Welch capitalism which puts management at a combative pose against employees.
Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans
#319One underlying problem with these PIP type programs at FAANG seems to be that they have very high barriers to entry in the interview process, and then act like 30% of the company is underperforming and subject to an annual 6% cull. There are industries & companies that have grown fat & lazy and could use a few annual 6% culls, but you eventually run out of fat. If you have a very competitive interview process and hig…
> the old Wall St model of doing one cut in one afternoon, calling people into an office and giving a severance is far more humane. Since when did being "humane" contribute to profit? > Everyone understood it was about the numbers not about your performance The idea is literally to make the remaining employees think it's about performance. The company doesn't care what ex-employees think.
Even vampires knew that to feed another day, they need to let victim rest a little. Just sayin'
Lol. No. They make them think about whether they can jump ship. edit: Basically, only ones without any options stay.
Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans
#320> That next day, I called my manager and I told them I was resigning. They blew a gasket — absolutely blew a gasket I don't understand how someone could be responsible for a policy that puts people's livelihood at risk under the headline of "just business things" and not expect the same treatment from their employees. "sorry boss - just looking out for my shareholder: me"
I once had a manager at a temp-to-hire job spend the first 10 minutes of my resignation call swearing angrily about the situation. He clarified that it wasn't anger at me specifically, but it was an impressive fit. Some people don't react well to failure.