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I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

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Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#121

Post by capableweb »

trgdr wrote: post #114
capableweb wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you instead move laterally and look at other "modern" countries, instead of temporally, it's easy to see how the working class and more is getting exploited in the US.

Ehh if you look at other "modern" countries you see workers being paid half as much. Not to say that the US is any sort of paradise, but there are definitely tradeoffs that favor either direction.

I don't think there is any value in just comparing salaries across countries, but I'm sure you already know this. Make it more interesting by add in life expectancy or something else, salary is just a number that doesn't matter much unless you start including other numbers too.

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#122

Post by intunderflow »

richardwhiuk wrote: post #108

This would probably be illegal in the UK.

In the UK you can be fired for any or no reason, except a specifically illegal reason, until you have 2 years of service. It's like at-will employment but with a notice period.

https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/what-to-do-if-youre-dismissed#:...

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#123

Post by jvanderbot »

_the_inflator wrote: post #28
aestetix wrote: post #11

This seems common in American companies. I wonder how much of this is a result of lawsuit culture. For example, American companies won't tell job applicants why they get rejected, lest they get sued by the rejected candidates. And perhaps this has carried into feedback for actual employees. It sounds like the author wasn't even he was on a performance improvement plan, he had to infer it and pull it out of his manage…

Senior Manager here. This is common to any large entity and may only influenced by workers' rights and culture. 1. Large numbers In large companies, you have numbers. There are 10000 individuals so to say. There is a difference between individuals and groups. The larger the group, the more HR and controlling tend to use their understanding of statistics. This is the conflict between groups and individuals. Why take c…

Former Manager here.

Just to add some seasoning: I like to call this "Pip"/Pivot/Stack Rank process as "precedent caching". You can be sued for giving someone decent performance reviews and then not giving them the average raise - let alone ushering them out of the organization, passing up promotions, or re-orging them out of their job.

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#124

Post by boffinAudio »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #40
KptMarchewa wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely not true in Europe, unless you're talking UK or a subject of an US company.

Yes it's true for Europe. (big) companies' HR just ghost you or reject you with the same legally safe cookie cutter template messages. Maybe at very small companies if you only interacted with the hiring manager he might have the time and inclination to give you some personalized feedback but that's very rare. No, not UK, just Austrian companies in Austria for example. Swedish companies in Sweden. Also German compani…

Austrian resident here, checking in. I have yet to see this heinous practice in the Austrian job market, but I guess ymmv. Every single time [*] I've asked for feedback on the interview process, I've gotten it - including details for why I was not considered for a position.

Perhaps you just need to ask.

[* - except Qualcomm, I just remembered...]

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#125

Post by astura »

aestetix wrote: post #11

This seems common in American companies. I wonder how much of this is a result of lawsuit culture. For example, American companies won't tell job applicants why they get rejected, lest they get sued by the rejected candidates. And perhaps this has carried into feedback for actual employees. It sounds like the author wasn't even he was on a performance improvement plan, he had to infer it and pull it out of his manage…

This is not common in any company I've ever worked for, fwiw.

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#126

Post by adaml_623 »

HenryBemis wrote: post #31
aestetix wrote: post #11

This seems common in American companies. I wonder how much of this is a result of lawsuit culture. For example, American companies won't tell job applicants why they get rejected, lest they get sued by the rejected candidates. And perhaps this has carried into feedback for actual employees. It sounds like the author wasn't even he was on a performance improvement plan, he had to infer it and pull it out of his manage…

[flagged]

"curry-eating"? Really?

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#127

Post by chadash »

aestetix wrote: post #11

This seems common in American companies. I wonder how much of this is a result of lawsuit culture. For example, American companies won't tell job applicants why they get rejected, lest they get sued by the rejected candidates. And perhaps this has carried into feedback for actual employees. It sounds like the author wasn't even he was on a performance improvement plan, he had to infer it and pull it out of his manage…

> For example, American companies won't tell job applicants why they get rejected, lest they get sued by the rejected candidates

In my experience, this isn’t always true. If you ask the person who interviewed you they will often give you feedback. The issue is that often you do an interview with person x, but then get a rejection email from person y in HR. Person Y doesn’t know enough detail to give you feedback so they don’t.

I’ve also conducted hundreds of interviews. I generally don’t give feedback unless asked because a) it takes time and b) some candidates will push back and argue even though I’ve already made a decision and c) sometimes it’s just awkward. For example, a team might reject someone because they find the candidate doesn’t communicate well, but that’s awkward feedback to give someone, even if it’s useful. But if someone reaches out and asks for feedback, I usually try to schedule a five minute phone call to help them out.

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#128

Post by FirmwareBurner »

boffinAudio wrote: post #124
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it's true for Europe. (big) companies' HR just ghost you or reject you with the same legally safe cookie cutter template messages. Maybe at very small companies if you only interacted with the hiring manager he might have the time and inclination to give you some personalized feedback but that's very rare. No, not UK, just Austrian companies in Austria for example. Swedish companies in Sweden. Also German compani…

Austrian resident here, checking in. I have yet to see this heinous practice in the Austrian job market, but I guess ymmv. Every single time [*] I've asked for feedback on the interview process, I've gotten it - including details for why I was not considered for a position. Perhaps you just need to ask. [* - except Qualcomm, I just remembered...]

Oh, I have asked, and only got ghosted. Even by Austria's biggest telecom company in Vienna too ;)

90% of the time the feedback is "sorry, we can't move forward because we have better candidates in the pipeline" and asking for details leaves you ghosted.

You probably live in a different Austria. Or maybe because I'm a foreigner with dark skin :)

Re: I worked in Amazon HR and was disgusted at what I was seeing with PIP plans

#129

Post by bogdanu »

lnsru wrote: post #115
bogdanu wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon pays less than local outsourcing companies in Eastern Europe. Faang salary my arse.

Romania? That’s why companies go there and other distant countries. To pay below market rate with huge press support. I experienced it first hand from Continental and Hella. If I have the same job in Germany, I will get normal salary. If I take job in eastern branch, I will get 1/3 salary. And local companies offered me 1/2. Obviously I stayed in Germany.

Yup.
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