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How Meta Is Planning for Elections in 2024

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Re: How Meta Is Planning for Elections in 2024

#31

Here's a twisted thought... There are many things in election systems I don't really understand. One such example is being able to vote while not living in your country of citizenship for a very long time. NOTE: I am only using the US here as an example. The issue is likely present in many other nations. I have a friend who moved his entire family to Australia twenty-five years ago. They have no intention to return t…

Agree on principle, but isn’t this an edge case? Are there enough votes coming from citizens living abroad to matter?

The silly hypothetical I painted is that an adversary, B, of country A, could launch a mid to long term plan to secure some degree of voting control over country B.

There are countries around the world where even a million people could play a serious role in all kinds of elections. This is where simple majority systems could be vulnerable. Just looking at the recent presidential elections in Argentina, I think the delta between the two candidates was around three million votes.

Probably closer to a bad movie plot than reality though.

Re: How Meta Is Planning for Elections in 2024

#33
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How far would you extend this? Twitter illegal? Nextdoor illegal? Gaiaonline illegal?

Algorithmic feeds should be illegal. Chronological only.

What does that mean? What qualifies algorithmic and what qualifies as a feed?

Clearly, HN itself needs to drop anything except for "new", which makes that a pretty useless website. What if someone were to curate the best of HN on another site? would that be an algorithmic feed? what if it were all manual? what about if it were mostly automatic?

Is filtering the set of public posts down to only the ones from users that I follow an algorithmic feed? It's certainly not just chronological.

Certainly you mean that youtube autoplay could only what? Like it must just play videos from the same user and in published order? could users define playlists that it would autoplay in?

Google search results are certainly algorithmic, is that a feed? what if I include site:twitter.com? Can a twitter-like site have an API? Is it a requirement that the 3rd party developers cannot create an algorithmic feed from that?

What about a dedicated sports feed on twitter? is that algorithmic if whether a tweet is considered sports or not is done automatically?

Just like HN, reddit is pretty much done for as any non-tiny subreddit is going to only have a chronological spammed feed. In fact, this plan doubly benefits spammers: (1) you can't filter out spam because that's algorithmic and (2) you have to look at the spam because it must be shown in chronological order.

I mean, the whole idea very clearly means that you shutdown any site featuring user generated content of HN's size or larger (and probably to bit smaller as well).

Do book stores need to stock their books in published order?

Re: How Meta Is Planning for Elections in 2024

#34

Here's a twisted thought... There are many things in election systems I don't really understand. One such example is being able to vote while not living in your country of citizenship for a very long time. NOTE: I am only using the US here as an example. The issue is likely present in many other nations. I have a friend who moved his entire family to Australia twenty-five years ago. They have no intention to return t…

Although I have troubles rationalising it I feel like this would be wrong. Should a citizen abroad not be able to vote on how these kind of people are treated (social services, taxes and such)? Some country do not allow dual citizenship but I don't think I like this idea either. Some places restricts some privileges if you don't live there atleast a few months out of the year so this could potentially be a way to implement it. You can't vote in an election cycle if you didn't live there atleast 3 months or something. But then again this won't prevent weaponizing democracy. All in all it's a very complexes situation that warrants a serious discussion.

P.S not a US citizen

Re: How Meta Is Planning for Elections in 2024

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree on principle, but isn’t this an edge case? Are there enough votes coming from citizens living abroad to matter?

The silly hypothetical I painted is that an adversary, B, of country A, could launch a mid to long term plan to secure some degree of voting control over country B. There are countries around the world where even a million people could play a serious role in all kinds of elections. This is where simple majority systems could be vulnerable. Just looking at the recent presidential elections in Argentina, I think the de…

Oh yeah sure, I thought you were suggesting that as a reason to restrict the practice, not as an interesting hypothetical. Admittedly I did not read super carefully, sorry.

The inverse is also interesting. Let’s say a group of people think the country is going in the wrong direction, but they don’t have the power to oppose it directly. They leave the country, and then absentee vote as extremists of the side they disagree with in order to trigger a backlash. Art of War!

Re: How Meta Is Planning for Elections in 2024

#36

Here's a twisted thought... There are many things in election systems I don't really understand. One such example is being able to vote while not living in your country of citizenship for a very long time. NOTE: I am only using the US here as an example. The issue is likely present in many other nations. I have a friend who moved his entire family to Australia twenty-five years ago. They have no intention to return t…

> Say you vote for a tax increase. Everyone pays. You don't.

That's actually a bad example, because US citizens have to pay US taxes even if they've lived abroad for many years. As a result they also have to have at least a US mailing address and a US phone number since they still have business with the government (Uncle Sam). Also the opposite is true, you would be incentivized to vote for tax cuts instead, because you wouldn't reap the benefits of any social program that isn't tied to Social Security.

> That means you have been a part of the affected population recently enough and long enough to have "skin in the game".

You're take is a little too cynical in my opinion. Americans that move abroad don't magically stop being Americans, and they usually don't stop giving a shit about their country. Also as a superpower, what happens in the US likely still affects their life abroad. More likely though is that people who have lived abroad for many years are actually out of the loop, don't really know what's going on in the US and what's relevant or important, and so wouldn't make good voting decisions.

> billions of people under totalitarian regime sends millions of people to another nation. They instruct them to stay there long enough to become citizens of that nation

This is one of many variations of security issues, another might be foreign adversaries buying up properties or businesses, etc. I'm pretty sure the military is aware of these threats and has ways to prevent them from happening. They probably also have ways of dealing with circumstances that are technically legal but still a threat to national defense, as I'm sure things like this have happened many times over in different ways over the decades, and continues to happen.

> the potential nefarious use of "remote voting" in any nation

A valid concern but a bit too specific and slightly xenophobic. Really the problem is more general than that, as there are all sorts of conflicts of interest when it comes to voting, so an actual comprehensive solution would need to take all of it into account, if it's possible to sort it out.

For example, a poor person would be incentivized to vote for social programs that are targeted to support them economically, because they won't be paying for it in taxes. A rich person would be incentivized to vote for tax cuts for the wealthy. A religious conservative would be incentivized to vote for policies that align with their religion. A progressive would be incentivized to vote for policies that align with their progressive ideology. Etc. And as you can see, it can be complicated if not (currently) impossible, to sort out "valid" democratic participation over invalid participation.

Re: How Meta Is Planning for Elections in 2024

#38
post #37

[flagged]

Fascinating how even on hacker news people dont see that Russia spammed the whole internet with Trump. I wonder if your account is also a part of this propaganda effort, or just brainwashed.

You have zero room to speak on the topic of being brainwashed.

Re: How Meta Is Planning for Elections in 2024

#40
post #36

Here's a twisted thought... There are many things in election systems I don't really understand. One such example is being able to vote while not living in your country of citizenship for a very long time. NOTE: I am only using the US here as an example. The issue is likely present in many other nations. I have a friend who moved his entire family to Australia twenty-five years ago. They have no intention to return t…

> Say you vote for a tax increase. Everyone pays. You don't. That's actually a bad example, because US citizens have to pay US taxes even if they've lived abroad for many years. As a result they also have to have at least a US mailing address and a US phone number since they still have business with the government (Uncle Sam). Also the opposite is true, you would be incentivized to vote for tax cuts instead, because…

> That's actually a bad example, because US citizens have to pay US taxes even if they've lived abroad for many years.

And yet, I made it very clear that my post isn't about the US. Just a thought exercise choosing any two nations, A and B.

People read what they want to read I guess.

> xenophobic

C'mon! Geez.

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