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Henry Kissinger Has Died

nytimes.com

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Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#231

Post by throwanem »

ksaj wrote: post #190
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? Many countries do not recognize the ICC, not just the US. We don’t want a Global World Order; that’s a European fantasy Europe can keep. We don’t share all the same values or laws and never will. I’m glad for The Hague Invasion Act.

American money has "NEW WORLD ORDER" written in Latin on it. I'm sure that's where people might get the idea that America does want a Global World Order.

No, it doesn't. "Seclorum" means something like "of the ages" or "for the ages"; it's from the same root as "secular".

If you're going to propagate conspiracy theories, at least try to do so in such fashion as avoids making you look as if you can't be bothered to read.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#232

Post by ekianjo »

Bluecobra wrote: post #22
arp242 wrote: post #5

I'm surprised at the extreme brevity of this obituary; were they taken by surprise someone could die of old age as young as 100 and didn't have anything prepared? I would have expected at least an brief summary of his career, highlights, major points of controversy, etc. e.g. like this: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/29/henry-kissin... (and undoubtedly many others). Also, this ruins my "Jimmy Carter v.…

I’m really surprised to see such a glaring typo, I don’t think I ever seen one before from the BBC: > Born in Germany in 1973,

If that was the only issue with BBC reporting, that'd be nothing...

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#233

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jandrese wrote: post #123
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can't say someone can't be a war criminal if they had underlings, supervisors, or peers who should have known better and stopped them This isn’t true. The persons who carry out the order are liable. As is the commander.

> The person receiving the order could—and in many cases, should—have refused.

To execute it. Kissinger didn’t execute. He relayed. It’s a subtle, frustrating but—I think—necessary distinction to preserve the sanctity of the term required to prosecute heads of state, a novel concept in its own right.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#235

Post by dccoolgai »

Before Henry Kissinger, there were walls in the world - just as there are now. The difference was those walls - by-and-large - were designed to keep people _in_. A very subtle but meaningful difference. The people who built _those walls_ wanted you inside with them. That was their dream - and they were quite frank about it. Just something to ponder.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#236

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ceejayoz wrote: post #138
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wasn't a winning argument at Nuremberg For subordinates who executed the illegal actions. Within the command structure. Being in the command structure was important. We did this for practical reasons. In Iraq, we fired the Ba’athist civilian state along with its military. So not only was the successor left without its bureaucracy, said bureaucracy was also unemployed. Ripe for the taking. Legally, focussing on the…

> For subordinates who executed the illegal actions. Within the command structure. Being in the command structure was important. For a fairly comparable role (foreign minister), Joachim von Ribbentrop was convicted (among other things, for "crimes against peace" and "deliberately planning a war of aggression") and executed at Nuremberg. Plenty of ministers in the list there. It's hard to argue Kissinger wasn't involv…

This is fair. Were America to find itself at the mercy of a foreign power, he would likely have been prosecuted. That said—and I’m not a Hague expert, so please take this with the grain of salt an internet discussion should carry—the intent of Nuremberg was a balance of practicality and precision, on one hand, with deterrence and retribution, on the other hand.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#237

Post by imgabe »

jjeaff wrote: post #227
imgabe wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading through the descriptions of the episodes of this podcast it seems a lot like they start with a conclusion and then confirmation bias themselves (and everyone else who already agrees with them). Maybe not the most objective source.

in my experience, this is basically how all podcasts and documentaries seem to be made.

Which makes it such a shame that people throw them around like they are an authoritative source of anything. It’s literally just some guy who read a book and has a microphone. It’s as good as whatever book they read.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#239

Post by rmason »

koolba wrote: post #129
Pxtl wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've already listened and it's excellent. Tl;dr version: Kissinger was an almost superhuman ass-kisser. He had an incredible knack for playing along with whatever insane idea somebody had and made everybody in the room feel goddamned brilliant. The richest, most powerful, and most beautiful people in the world just loved being around him because he consistently sounded interesting and made them feel intelligent. And…

> The only thing that seemed his own idea was personally planning and picking bombing targets to murder hell out of everybody in Cambodia. That and being a total horn dog.

The crowd here might find it preposterous but Kissinger dated models and movie stars. One that I remember was the actress Jill St. John who was a Bond girl in the movie Diamonds are forever. The two dated for a couple of years. Miss St. John also dated Michael Caine, Sean Connery, David Frost and Tom Selleck.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#240

Post by verandaguy »

imgabe wrote: post #196
breput wrote: post #6

Do yourself a favor and listen to at least one of the six part series that Behind The Bastards podcast[0] did on Kissinger. It will give you a background, with sources, on the "controversial" statesman that you'll read eulogies about over the next few days. [0] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-one-kissinger [1] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-two-kissinger [2] https://omny.fm/shows/behind…

Reading through the descriptions of the episodes of this podcast it seems a lot like they start with a conclusion and then confirmation bias themselves (and everyone else who already agrees with them). Maybe not the most objective source.

Be that as it may -- and I haven't listened to the podcast -- but there's very compelling evidence of his responsibility, or at least complicity for war crimes throughout southeast Asia during the Nixon administration amounting to civilian deaths numbering in the tens of thousands, conservatively.

The greatest irony here is that he managed to make it to 100.

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