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Henry Kissinger Has Died

nytimes.com

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Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#181

Post by bee_rider »

torstenvl wrote: post #164
mattnewton wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying I agree with the charge but this also doesn’t refute it. I mean, for one thing the US believes the state department and military of the US is above international war crimes courts. (Thats the actual official position).

"International war crimes courts" do not prosecute treason. And it isn't about the personnel being "above" anything. It's simply that the ICC is not a court and does not respect due process, so we do not subject American citizens to it (and indeed it would be an interesting Constitutional question as to whether that's even truly possible). From a more pragmatic perspective, as long as Russia and China don't recognize…

Were some of the comments up-thread edited or something? I don’t see any mention of treason in this specific chain until this post (but it is weird because hammock’s post, at this same level, also mentions treason).

Of course there are other threads that bring up the possibility of treason. But I don’t see why there’s a need to explain the (obvious, right?) fact that the ICC wouldn’t prosecute treason.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#184

Post by kurthr »

jofer wrote: post #162
hammock wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The crazy thing about this is that the folks calling Kissinger out for war crimes and the folks like you pointing out the good things he enabled both have a valid point. I'm not saying his legacy is positive or negative overall, but folks need to look at both sides of it. He's a great example of someone who had a major hand in a lot of major decisions and has a very very mixed legacy because of it. Things are much bl…

People are complicated. I'd be more tempted to see the good, if he had ever shown remorse or admitted to mistakes.

The Nobel prize is based on explosives. Most scientists 100 years ago were eugenicists. It's difficult to judge people's beliefs and decisions outside of their era. That doesn't mean that you can't build a moral or ethical system outside of it, but they're all based on assumptions of what is good.

It's not like there weren't people calling out Kissinger contemporaneously, or even Lincoln (for his handling of the Dakota). It's more weird when people obliviously deny recent history or create hagiography upon their death.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#186

Post by doublemint2203 »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #175
ceejayoz wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just "above"; US law explicitly gives the President the power to invade The Hague if they get their hands on American officials or military personnel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr... > The Act gives the President power to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the reque…

So what? Many countries do not recognize the ICC, not just the US. We don’t want a Global World Order; that’s a European fantasy Europe can keep. We don’t share all the same values or laws and never will. I’m glad for The Hague Invasion Act.

Doesn't the Hague only do war crimes? It's not much of a Global World Order if they only process heinous stuff. Is this a slippery slope argument? Or do you disagree with how the Hague does things?

am not well educated on it, for context

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#187

Post by foob »

I’ve never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure.

- Clarence Darrow

Not the only war criminal to ever win a Nobel Peace Prize, but he's surely in the running for the one with the most blood on his hands.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#188

Post by mikehotel »

protocolture wrote: post #157
anigbrowl wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly, but lots of terrible people are also interesting. Kissinger strikes me as a prime example of Lord Acton's dictum at how power corrupts; by any reasonable standard he committed absolutely egregious acts, but because they inured to the USA's strategic benefit, there has never been any political will to hold him accountable. It's like how the US promotes the idea of a 'rules based international order' but hab…

Theres a semi apocryphal story that one of Kissingers friends warned him before he started working under clearance, that once he had access to "Intelligence" that other people didn't have, he would lose his humanity to the spooks, and assume he was smarter than the people without clearance. Which seems to be sort of what happened.

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/02/daniel-ellsbe...

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#190

Post by ksaj »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #175
ceejayoz wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just "above"; US law explicitly gives the President the power to invade The Hague if they get their hands on American officials or military personnel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr... > The Act gives the President power to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the reque…

So what? Many countries do not recognize the ICC, not just the US. We don’t want a Global World Order; that’s a European fantasy Europe can keep. We don’t share all the same values or laws and never will. I’m glad for The Hague Invasion Act.

American money has "NEW WORLD ORDER" written in Latin on it. I'm sure that's where people might get the idea that America does want a Global World Order.
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