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Henry Kissinger Has Died

nytimes.com

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Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#91

Post by slibhb »

genter wrote: post #59
slibhb wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was Nixon. The joke doesn't apply to Kissinger because he wasn't a crook.

You're right. Kissinger was way worse.

The whole point of the joke is that Nixon famously said "People have gotta know whether or not their president is a crook. Well I am not a crook".

Posting a gibe that Hunter S. Thompson wrote about Nixon after Kissinger died is just stupid. At least post what he wrote about Kissinger:

> It would be easy to forget and forgive Henry Kissinger of his crimes, just as he forgave Nixon. Yes, we could do that -- but it would be wrong. Kissinger is a slippery little devil, a world-class hustler with a thick German accent and a very keen eye for weak spots at the top of the power structure. Nixon was one of those, and Super K exploited him mercilessly, all the way to the end.

> Kissinger made the Gang of Four complete: Agnew, Hoover, Kissinger and Nixon. A group photo of these perverts would say all we need to know about the Age of Nixon.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#94

Post by aidenn0 »

ninjin wrote: post #63
Kye wrote: post #32

The pro-Kissinger side will obviously have plenty of defense. Here's a good unrolling of the "piss on his grave" perspective for those who are confused (or angry but concerned they may not be showing enough consideration to a different perspective): https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/henry-ki... Anthony Bourdain on Kissinger [0]: “Once you’ve been to Cambodia, you’ll never stop wanting to beat Henry…

To quote Tom Lehrer: "Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissinger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize." Kissinger's legacy will be debated for a long time and I have personally only scratched the very surface. I do however intend to read Hitchen's "The Trial of Henry Kissinger" [1] one day, if not just to enjoy the fire with which he could write. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trial_of_Henry_Kissinger

Do you have a source for the Lehrer quote? I've been told he didn't say that.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#98

Post by [deleted] »

slibhb wrote: post #53

In foreign policy you have to walk a line between moralism and realism. Kissinger was too much a realist. But moralism has its dangers too, as we saw with the Bush (Iraq, Afghanistan) and Obama (Libya) administrations. At any rate, it's hard to think of anyone who is more responsible for the continued post-war global dominance of the US than Henry Kissinger.

[deleted]

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#99

Post by Pxtl »

breput wrote: post #6

Do yourself a favor and listen to at least one of the six part series that Behind The Bastards podcast[0] did on Kissinger. It will give you a background, with sources, on the "controversial" statesman that you'll read eulogies about over the next few days. [0] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-one-kissinger [1] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-two-kissinger [2] https://omny.fm/shows/behind…

I've already listened and it's excellent.

Tl;dr version: Kissinger was an almost superhuman ass-kisser. He had an incredible knack for playing along with whatever insane idea somebody had and made everybody in the room feel goddamned brilliant. The richest, most powerful, and most beautiful people in the world just loved being around him because he consistently sounded interesting and made them feel intelligent.

And he used that power to stay in the halls of power whoever was in charge.

The only thing that seemed his own idea was personally planning and picking bombing targets to murder hell out of everybody in Cambodia.

Re: Henry Kissinger Has Died

#100

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ceejayoz wrote: post #79
acdha wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I’m sure that’s why he was never seriously threatened legally: the closest you could get to command would probably be Cambodia where he very explicitly told General Haig to start bombing a neutral country but in that case was also very clearly passing on Nixon’s direct order: “He wants a massive bombing campaign in Cambodia. He doesn’t want to hear anything. It’s an order, it’s to be done. Anything that flies, o…

"I just did what the Führer ordered" wasn't a winning argument at Nuremberg.

> wasn't a winning argument at Nuremberg

For subordinates who executed the illegal actions. Within the command structure. Being in the command structure was important.

We did this for practical reasons. In Iraq, we fired the Ba’athist civilian state along with its military. So not only was the successor left without its bureaucracy, said bureaucracy was also unemployed. Ripe for the taking.

Legally, focussing on the originator and executor of an order is cleaner. It’s stark in a way involving every interlocutor isn’t.

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