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The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

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Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which accident was that? Thanks!

Don't remember, sorry.

I couldn't find any evidence of it happening either, which makes sense, a system which gives feedback there's a problem intuitively seems better than one which doesn't.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's wild to me is the assumption that Iran would suddenly launch a single F-14 fighter to attack a ship. What is sudden about that? "Two months before the incident, the U.S. had engaged in Operation Praying Mantis, resulting in the sinkings of the Iranian frigate Sahand, the Iranian fast attack craft Joshan, and three Iranian speedboats. Also, the Iranian frigate Sabalan was crippled, two Iranian platforms were…

> In this situation the idea that Iran would launch a fighter against them is not that wild. Why would they launch a single fighter to attack a warship?

[dead]

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, you've just cured me of my Tesla envy entirely

I test drove a Hyundai ionic 6. All the levers and dials that had no use because they were set to 'Auto' made me appreciate my model 3 even more.

With the big difference of AUTO mode working for Hyundai while failing miserably for Tesla, because instead of using tested an proven technology the rely solely on their cameras.

For example look at the complains about the windscreen wipers not firing when they should and firing when they shouldn't:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/wipers-dont-work-pro...

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/v11-4-7-2023-7-30-au...

and so on..

And that's just for the wipers.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would recommend Ed Hutchins' "Cognition in the Wild". He examines the performance of the crew of a ship acting as distributed intelligence and the many factors that go into making them an effective unit (or not). Ed was also part of the UCSD Cognitive Science department at the time of the Vincennes incident and I suspect it was his work, along with Don Norman's, that drew the attention of the Navy. At the time, I w…

I find the glass cockpit airspeed/altitude tapes to be significantly worse overall than analog dials. Not only is it easier to see rate of descent, but it's very easy to see whether the absolute number is where you want it to be. Normally if you're cruising, you will be at an even thousand or 500 foot increment. The big hand should either be pointing straight up or straight down. You can even see out of the corner of…

Overall, though, having flown both, I'd have to argue modern glass cockpits have significantly better UI than the old steam gauges. So many old aircraft didn't even give lip service to helping the aviator with a good instrument scan and just stuffed things willy-nilly.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#505

Interesting to see this on HN. I currently work for the company that redesigned the HMI/UI following this incident. Or rather, it's how my company was founded. In the aftermath, the US Navy Command in San Diego contacted several UCSD professors in the Cognitive Science and Psychology department who specialized in high-impact decision making under stress and cognitive load. The Navy was apparently impressed with the d…

Software engineers sometimes wonder about the importance of their jobs by comparing them to other engineering fields where mistakes can hurt or kill fellow human beings. And then there are jobs that hurt or kill regardless of the quality of your work.

Go read about the software bug that literally killed people by miscalculating the radiation dose given by a medical machine. There is software which can hurt or kill fellow human beings. Industrial controls, aircraft flight controls, the list goes on.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's wild to me is the assumption that Iran would suddenly launch a single F-14 fighter to attack a ship. What is sudden about that? "Two months before the incident, the U.S. had engaged in Operation Praying Mantis, resulting in the sinkings of the Iranian frigate Sahand, the Iranian fast attack craft Joshan, and three Iranian speedboats. Also, the Iranian frigate Sabalan was crippled, two Iranian platforms were…

> In this situation the idea that Iran would launch a fighter against them is not that wild. Why would they launch a single fighter to attack a warship?

Patrol ship sees and engages a foreign warship inside the patrol's territorial waters and radios for help. First fighter available launches and flies that way to investigate. Sees the warship engaged with the patrol boat and takes initiative, while other fighters are prepping for launch for follow on attacks in case the invading warship does not retreat or surrender.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#507

When Americans shoot down an airliner they get to describe it as a "user interface error". After denying they did it for a long period first, of course.

This event was not officially described as a user interface error, though.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are failing to comprehend is that the United States has a policy of enforcing international naval freedom, and routinely transits international waters near many nations. The US has no issue with any vessel's location in international waters, regardless of what nation.

Would the US have any issue if Iran had more and more powerful vessels than the US Navy, all encircling NYC in international waters?

Not a policy maker but probably still nope. International means international, and America is a part of the international community and these waters are vital for trade. It's not like you can conquer a nation of millions with a couple of ships 12 miles from the coast.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, you would think people would start seeing the games being played. Look up “mass control hypnosis” if you’ve never heard the term.

Are you trying to quietly introduce the term? It brings up some music videos, some fringe conspiracy theorists, and TV Tropes.

sorry, it's Mass Formation Hypnosis

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#510

There seems to be a lot of trust in IFF in this incident, what would stop Iran from reprogramming their F-14's IFF to identify as as civilian aircraft (or if reprogramming isn't feasible, retrofitting a stolen civilian airliner's IFF system into an electronics pod on their F-14, I'm sure the Iranian government wouldn't have any trouble getting an aircraft from Iranian Airlines)? Do warships do any verification beyond…

> what would stop Iran from reprogramming their F-14's IFF to identify as as civilian aircraft

If you do that, you paint a target on civilian aircraft launched from your country's airfields. Especially if your airfields are military and civilian dual-use like the airfield in this case.

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